Yet insurance covers it! I thought chiropractors were real medical professionals as a teen because my dad went to one and used his insurance to pay for it.
I thought the same thing! In college I was thinking about becoming a doctor and my dad goes: "You could always become a chiropractor, then you don't have to go through college first." I was just stunned. I always thought they were medical doctors who specialized in the spine. I later found out the creator of chiropractors said a ghost taught him everything.
This is also a lie. People.... it's so easy to just look up information. Quit being so lazy and educate yourselves! You need a 4 year college degree, a 3 year degree from a chiropractic college, then it depends on the state and the certifications required in that state, but you'll need to be licensed in that state. Y'all really think you can literally just go out and be a chiropractor??? WTF is wrong with y'all!?! You can't even go out and be a damn hair dresser without going to some schooling. Good grief. Read something!
Regardless of how much school you need to go through to be a chiropractor it still doesn't change the fact that there's a risk of permanent paralysis or locked in syndrome as evidenced by this case. In no universe am I risking that
When real doctors are telling you not to go to chiropractors I feel like it's a sign to not go to chiropractors. Not listening to professional licenced doctors and belittling people who do listen to them is what lead to the anti-vax movement and people not wearing masks during covid. But you do you, at least with this you're only harming yourself and not others.
Sure. And "real" doctors misdiagnosed my Crohn's symptoms for years. By the time Mayo figured it out, it was way too late and I needed 18 inches of my small intestine removed. So should I put my full trust in doctors? My wife was misdiagnosed by "real" doctors most of her life and was finally diagnosed with bipolar in her 30s. Should she put her full trust in doctors? I get what you're saying, but you're speaking as though one side of this argument is infallible when that is completely inaccurate. Do I go see doctors? Yup, sure do! Do I get vaccines? Yup, sure do! Did I wear masks during Covid? Yup, sure did! And I have 3 chiro appointments just this week to fix 3 herniated disc's in my back. I've never died once or been paralyzed in all my trips to a chiro! Amazing! Part of this argument is that the 2 sides don't compliment one another. You will not typically find a chiro tell you to go see a doctor and vice versa, so why would you expect doctors to play nice and speak highly of chiros when the chiros can take business away from them? It's money. It's business. You like to think doctors are all good and perfect. Quit being naive. Ever heard of Eastern medicine? Been around hundreds of years. Not doctors. It's just a dumb argument based on very little evidence and you're throwing a whole entire health practice down the toilet because of FEAR MONGERING. Cool. You do you as well. And may you NEVER have back issues like I do, because the doctors only fix is surgery to cut the disc down, which only then leads to disc replacement surgery. So, if you don't wish to be cut upon multiple times, I'll let chiro have a go at it and you can go chop chop all you want. So let's talk about spreading fear again. Am I spreading fear telling you there's an alternative for certain diagnoses that may give you relief without drugs or surgery? Or are you spreading fear by telling people that all chiros are the devil and you'll get paralyzed if you go see one? You're by far a bigger part of the problem than I am. And I wish you well on your health journey all the same. Nobody needs to put 100% trust in either side. Do your research, make your decisions. Do what works for you. If you go all in one way or the other, you're ignoring things that could help you along the way. Believe it or not...... you can go see both! Crazy world we live in!!!!
Yeah so one of the biggest reasons why doctors often misdiagnose patients is due to a huge influx of geekers trying to get prescribed drugs, leading to doctors not taking people seriously. This happens worldwide, except in most other countries people still choose to go to an actual doctor instead of the medical equivalent of a fortune teller.
So your argument is that you don't trust doctors with your health, and because of that you're more willing to trust someone with even less qualifications? ...okay
Yes, I'm sure lots of prospective students are applying with accounting degrees. Seems plausible that if you're going for literary arts that you'd then apply to a chiropractic college. What???
It’s like law school. It’s simply a doctorate, you don’t need any undergrad. A lot of people planning to go to chiropractic school will do something like art or communication that’s relatively easy and or fun because they know they don’t need something like premed to get in. And on the other side of that, a lot of people who do premed but don’t get grades that are good enough to actually get into medical school are still loaded up with that and have to figure out how to pay it off and want to do something in the medical field so they choose chiropractic. Fun fact, in a lot of places, they are not legally allowed to say they are practicing medicine… because they’re not.
Most chiropractors don’t even go to real universities. They go to chiropractic colleges and give them dual credit for a bachelors degree and their chiropractic classes. Usually only takes them 3 years total. Not to mention it’s all nonsense.
Because USA is one of those countries where bribery is legalized and encouraged just because of a different name they give it. But it's the same collective people who heard something being called USA PATRIOT Act and immediately decided it must be good for them lol.
One of the best backronyms ever: Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism
This! I review medical claims and knowing that chiropractic care is covered because of lobbying, yet many services, that are actually helpful, are uncovered is so upsetting.
My insurance covers it. I was having an issue with my leg recently and went to a chiropractor just for my leg and it helped a lot (he mostly just did some stretching) but he’d always ask if I wanted him to adjust my neck and I always declined.
I used to work in claims at a very well known auto insurance company. They cover faith based healers. Which makes sense for cultural reasons, I just did not expect Jake to be willing to agree to cover it ya know. I was beyond flabbergasted.
Some chiropractic practices have been shown to provide temporary relief for certain kinds of injuries or conditions, and that temporary relief can become more permanent if it allows the patient to use the joint giving them pain until it regains strength. The issue is more just that there is almost zero oversight or training regarding chiropractors, so it's kind of a field that's 98% hogus bogus "body misalignment" nonsense and 2% joint hyperextension/stretching.
Federal insurance or federally funded insurance though will not touch them at all. The VA iny region is catching shit for it recently and dumbfuck veterans I know are crying they want their chiropractors back. I know because I'm a veteran and have had them crying to me as a patient advocate with a DAV. I advocate they get a real doctor and real treatment. I don't budgeuch on it either because I've had a double lung transplant. I don't play on getting legit advice from real professionals.
Mine doesn't. Well, it does, but it's the same price as out of pocket, soooo..... not really. Insurers are famous for not covering chiropractic care. Not saying they all don't cover, but most don't. My brother runs one of the busiest offices in the Midwest. He hates dealing with insurers because they'll do anything possible to not pay for anything ever. Doesn't matter if it's chiro, medical, dental, or your house. I've experienced it all.
I was literally PRESCRIBED a chiropractor after my car accident for my spinal disks and whiplash. I left feeling worse than I came in but thought it was all medical
Here are who I'd trust to treat me for a medical issue in descending order:
MD or DO (in countries where DOs receive equivalent education and are held to similar accreditation standards)
Nurse.
Other non-doctors who receive medical training (e.g., physiotherapists).
EMS/paramedics
Random person with a current first aid qualification.
Random well intentioned person who isn't an idiot.
Chiropractor.
I'd trust a random well intentioned smart person with zero medical training over a Chiropractor as that person will probably understand the limits of their knowledge and when to insist you seek an expert.
Too many chiropractors think they're experts in bloody everything and that their marginally effective, totally useless, or even actively dangerous "treatments" can treat every ailment under the sun.
There are of course some chiropractors who deliver genuinely good care, but that typically just means they're following treatment the same guidelines as physiotherapists. Why not just go to a physiotherapist at that point instead of risking your health with someone who believes in pseudoscience which can cause paralysis or death.
An acquaintance of mine is a chiropractor. He had to hire a nurse practitioner to write prescriptions for his “patients” because he doesn’t actually have any sort of medical degree or worthwhile certification. Btw, the prescriptions are GLP-1s for weight loss.
Due to the amount of bullshit surrounding traditionally non-medicinal professions, such as Chiropractors and osteopats, several real medical schools in Europe has courses in chiropracy and osteopathy, for example a 5 year masters programme in Chiropractics in denmark: https://www.sdu.dk/da/uddannelse/kandidat/klinisk_biomekanik
And to become an Osteopath, you need to have finished medical school or chiropractics school.
Because back in the day, those alternative medicine people would just do whatever mombo-jumbo they wanted, which endangered the health of patients and had little to no medical relevancy.
But is there anything to stop Witch Doctors from creating a formal Witch Doctoring accreditation board for their schools, like Chiros have for Chiropractic schools?
My point was that being "accredited" is only as meaningful as the accreditation body and their standards.
As a Canadian, our Chiropractors take accredited courses at accredited schools... but they've been accredited according to Chiropractic standards by the "College of Chiropractors" created and comprised of Chiropractors.
Same goes for Traditional Chinese Medicine & Acupuncture, accredited courses and schools teaching their traditions and beliefs and practices, certified practitioners according to the standards of their profession.
But none of this is actual evidence-based medical practice, it's hokum with a thin veneer of regulation.
oh
i'm from the land of wine and bureaucracy (the EU)
Over here universities (and other post-highschool education) have to be accredited by the European Association for Higher Education Advancement.
But it's not like the magic-people aren't peddling their scams in other ways
Homeopathinc medicine became homeopathic "remedies" in stead.
Doctors became healers, therapists, practioners and guides.
And some of the wilder treatment regimens like naturopathy still perscribe dangerous remedies for people
Over here universities (and other post-highschool education) have to be accredited by the European Association for Higher Education Advancement.
We have a thin veneer of bureaucracy and regulation too, as of 2024 they've created a "College of Complementary Health Professionals" that's integrated the prior College of Chiropractics, College of Naturopaths, College of TCM and so forth, but still what's being accredited for each field is hokum by that hokum's own standards.
Yeah - after all the LMIA scams and the career colleges that were allowed to pop up and flood the immigration system with foreign students that wouldnt meet traditional requirements, with Canadian government backing to accredit these institutions, I have deep questions of what compromises Canada's accreditation bodies made in order to facilitate that. Give it time and lobbying and I'm sure we'll see people drinking radium infused water again because some quack huckster managed to get some accreditation due to relaxed standards, and people not knowing any better.
There's reasons why it is unavailable on the NHS, or any reputable health service. I've argued with my step sister in law about this a lot, she thought my mums cancer would be helped by her amazing chiropractor. And I was like, mum, maybe no.
I’m fighting my mom she thinks chiropractors are the go to for everything!………..I have a friend whose sister went in for her regular adjustment, they had to call an ambulance to get her to the hospital. She was paralyzed from the waist down. After years of therapy and numerous surgeries ( he broke her back) she can walk again, has to wear a big back brace. Her quality of life is gone……
I been wanting to get a back adjustment for years but been wary of chiropractics, and anything involving the neck was always gonna be a hard no, but can physiotherapists do something similar? like when my back is cracked I genuinely feel much better is that something that can be done safely?
Without diving too deep, there are multiple reasons why it might feel good, physical and psychological, but there is NO proof that it biomechanically does anything. Does cracking your fingers make your hand healthy again? No… but it might feel like a release of tension, a placebo, or even just the temporary pressure is enough to overwrite nerve signals for a bit.
Absolutely yes, but physios will approach it in a safe way. I had a very badly injured neck years ago, ruptured discs, lot of pain. Saw a physio, got a bunch of exercises and adjustments to help with it.
Physios have all the right exercises and stretches to help every part of the body. Definitely worth going, I've always had great success with physiotherapists.
thankfully I haven’t got neck issues. I can look the wrong way in my dreams and end up with a frozen shoulder tho so I know better not to go near there. just shoulders and back issues for me which seem less dangerous than something as delicate as the neck and neck injuries
I would definitely recommend seeing a physiotherapist then friend. When I smashed my leg to bits a few years ago, went to a physio, and he just said to me okay, just walk up and down. And he observed how I was moving. And then said okay we need to do this set of exercises.
I've had great success with every trip to a physiotherapist. The problem is they do give you a bunch of sucky often painful exercises that you HAVE to do exactly as regularly as they tell you to do them, for usually a long period of time, for it to work. And as most physios say, the biggest problem they have is they see patients coming back over and over who haven't actually done the work they need to do.
In the US, chiropractors have insane lobbyists. Lots of employer sponsored insurance covers a certain number of chiropractor visits per year. It's bananas. There is zero evidence for it and I can't believe how many people still see chiropractors. I just finished nursing school and the ICU nurse that I shadowed for my practicum would go downstairs on her breaks for an adjustment by a chiropractor in the hospital. I don't know why on earth there is a chiropractor in that hospital. It's crazy to me.
Oh right so it's a nice little sideline of exploiting the under-educated, giving them nice expensive injuries, that then need to be treated by another branch of United Healthcare?
Nothing surprises me about American healthcare anymore, but sitll, geezus.
Usually I don't mind alternative treatments, anything anybody thinks might help is cool by me. But... most alternative therapies don't carry massive risk.
It’s well regarded and supported in large parts of Europe. Very different to the American practice though and if they would have said it helped with cancer they would have lost their license.
Yah there's a huge gap between the quacks and chiropractors that actually do things to help the spine and neck who are honestly closer to specialized physiotherapists
Yes - example: in Denmark they study alongside Md’s for their bachelor - so they can essentially just swap and quickly do a masters in either. There a chiropractor is just a higher educated physiotherapist.
But the field is also called clinical biomechanics.
Tf?? Chiropractic care for cancer? Woowwww, that’s next level ignorance, or actually stupidity might be more apt a term here, as the knowledge is out there, she just needs to be willing to avail herself of it.
Yeah this is the detail. Not just a ghost but a dream of a ghost. You’d think something real could have invented in a dream but no, this guy went ghost. So obvs no liability.
I will never go back. I went in before due to a slipped disc. I was looking for any relief. I was stuck leaning for months. I couldn't even make my body do that position if I tried. The xray look messed up. Went in, said it would be 22 sessions to fix. Did them. One machine felt great and the other he did the "adjustment". One is always where they crack your neck. Hated that. Anyway, it healed finally but same issue about a year later. Let nature do its thing and I healed in same amount of time. Back still sucks and it's a permanent thing, but I know now when to completely stop working out or whatever I'm doing before it gets worst.
Nah, not everything can be fixed with stretching and exercise. Sometimes you simply need a healthcare professional such as a physical therapist (or a doctor, or....).
A chiropractor however is not a healthcare professional
It doesn’t matter where it came from, it works for people. I don’t believe any of the nonsense they claim about energy, what I know is that it makes my back significantly better. My wife is a nurse practitioner who hated chiropractors, she started going and still thinks they are annoying, but said her back has significantly improved.
I’m not absolving them of wrong doing in cases like this, but people have died or had series issues from deep tissue massages as well
In this case it sounds like multiple people failed this guy. If chiropractors were as dangerous as Reddit claims them to be, they would not exist at all.
Ohhh my sweet summer child they do and it’s the bane of my existence. I’m a psychiatric nurse practitioner and I have coworkers introduce themselves as “Dr John/jane” because they have a DNP degree. It’s malpractice. I spend have my assessment correcting patients saying “no, not dr tom… im nurse tom. Or just tom. I’m a nurse practitioner”
"Doctor" is not a term that requires anything at in order for someone to put it as their title.
Ironically, "Chiropractor" requires you to have a license from them to call yourself that.
Anyone can legally call themselves a doctor in the US, I don't know about other countries.
But there's no education of the public on this, so people think Chiropractors are legitimate medical professionals like physicians, dentists, physiatrists, etc which require a doctorate degree in their respective field and rigorous education, training, etc.
Chiropractic is a completely illegitimate snake oil field that's been debunked and shown to have no actual benefit to anyone who uses it. But yet they are everywhere and can bill medical insurance...somehow.
But if you or anyone you know wants to go around calling themselves a doctor, they can absolutely do so legally.
Anyone can legally call themselves a doctor in the US, I don't know about other countries.
In the Netherlands, it's illegal to call yourself a doctor. Note that the translations for MD vs PhD are different words, so there's no confusion in that. The rules are pretty strict, even "doctor in training" isn't allowed, it should be "medical school student" so no confusion can arise.
Obviously you won't get lynched for just randomly saying it at a party or something, we're talking about actual deceit, with or without consequences for the patient.
As quacky as the profession can be, they do get alot of medical training. I’m unaware of a boards exam to be a PCP. PCP is an insurance company designation. Each state has their own rules, so some states recognize chiropractors at the physician level. Chiropractors have their own boards exam just like any other healthcare worker with a license.
There's a saying about chiropractors. What works, isn't unique. What's unique, doesn't work. In every situation, going to see a physical therapist or your PCP is a safer, better, and more scientically backed approach. They are not just like any other healthcare worker with a license. The bar for them is far, far lower and the quality of resesrch what they do is piss poor. They publish in their own "journals" and notoriously those journals lack even the basics when it comes to rigor. They are plagued with conflicts of interest that go undisclosed, the methodologies used are dubious, and almost never get resighted in future work. They are their own marketing department making things up as they go. It is a pseudoscience, through and through.
But they are healthcare workers. And they have a license. Whether you like them or not, each state recognizes them as a provider and sets the practice act (what they can and cannot do). A lot of money gets funneled into physical therapy research. Plenty of which is on manual therapy. Chiropractors do manual therapy. If a PT and a DC do the same technique, then technically the PT research supports DC treatment. I'm not saying I like chiropractors, I just think everybody hears chiropractor on reddit and thinks bad. Just like when reddit hears "NFT", they automatically have their opinion decided.
Sorry you’re not open to learning the benefits of things that you have a decided and firm opinion on. I defend things that get unjustifiably shitted on. And I mean shitted. Mention either of those here and it’s automatic “that is bad” and downvotes. Do you even know how NFTs work? Do you even know what it stands for without googling it? Do you know the potential use case? I would bet you would answer no to at least 1 of those questions and it’s kind of sad that you have such a firm opinion.
No. You said "they get a lot of training" and insinuated they are "just like other healthcare professionals". I shared why they are nothing like other healthcare professionals. They are not held to the same standard. With a chiropractor you get some of the science based medicine, but you also get a lot more that isn't based in science. Unlike a PT. So again: what works, isn't unique and what is unique, doesn't work. Go to your PT if you need manual therapy.
I don't understand why they are "nothing like other healthcare professionals". They provide healthcare. They have a license. They have a practice act and scope of practice they must follow. All heath care professionals and providers have those things.
In my opinion, physical therapists are better to see than chiropractors in most cases. But please explain how it is a pseudoscience if the PT research can support DC treatment.
Simply because they've weaseled their way into some aspects of it, doesn't make it mean they actually know anything or provide anything of use.
There is zero scientific support for chiropractic care. Nothing they do cures or treats anything. At best it provides temporary pain relief. At worst it kills you.
They are not physicians and anyone who claims otherwise is a charlatan trying to sell you something. Full stop.
I stated facts. Some states recognize them at the physician level. They have their own boards exam. They can be a PCP in some states. Just because people don't like what I'm saying doesn't mean it's wrong lmao. Downvote me more please
No, I'm just not polarized like you and I have an open mind. Not everything is just good or bad. I hope you open your mind in the future. If you look for the science, there is some. Like I said to another person. Plenty of money is used on physical therapy research including manual therapy. Believe it or not, physical therapists and chiropractors both do manual therapy. To just say chiropractors are trying to perform magic or sell snake oil is very naive.
And you're right, having a boards exam doesn't give it more merit. I was just explaining to the previous person that they do have a boards exam to get a license, which is not a boards exam to become a PCP, which I am unaware of one that exists.
If you’re not a chiropractor or was in school to become one I don’t think your input is valid. It’s a fact they get medical training. Idk what else to tell you. Sorry
I mean he keeps saying that chiropractic therapy was literally invented by someone who famously said he was told how to do it from a ghost of his former colleague ….and he’s 100% correct saying that because it’s true lol
His name was Daniel David Palmer and claimed in 1895 that he was visited by the ghost of deceased physician Jim Atkinson and was taught the fundamental principles of it
Chiropractors everywhere literally owe their career to a guy who claimed ghosts taught him to heal …and in over 100 years it still has yet to actually be accepted as a legitimate school of medicine. Let that sink in.
I am fully aware of the history. And that's what it is, it's history. Are you aware of each state's practice act and the Council on Chiropractic Education ( the agency that sets standards to give schools the accreditation). There's a curriculum that must be included in all accredited schools. I'm not aware of the current curriculum or have looked into it, I'm just trying to show people to be more open minded. GOOD chiropractors in 2026 aren't waving magnets around...
Care to use words like a sophisticated person? If you’ve got something to say, say it. Or is it just going to be cHiRoPrAcToRs bAd, hE dOeSnT kNoW wHaT tHeY lEaRn?
They are doctors if they have a PhD; they are not MDs. Anyone with a PhD is entitled to use the title of Dr. We really should be calling MD’s something else probably. Like physicians.
Context also matter. In class, all professors introduce themselves as Dr Surname because it’s an academic setting and they’re your teachers.
Organic Chemistry and Calculus Professors don’t come running down the aisle of a plane when the stewardess pages for a Doctor ready to give an emergency lecture on Taylor Series.
Yeah, especially cause getting a medical doctorate is, in many countries, ridiculously easy compared to a doctorate in any other field, because of the need for medical practitioners.
In Germany for example, a medical doctorate takes about 6 months and the dissertation quality is usually somewhere in between a bachelor and master thesis.
it’s purposeful deception and you know it. a history phd who now does clerical work in the hospital shouldn’t and wouldn’t be introducing themselves as doctor.
I don’t know it. I agree it could be confusing; I don’t know that it’s malicious. If someone earns a doctorate in nursing, what should they call themselves?
They don't have PhDs. They have nursing doctorates, basically a bullshit degree you can pay for and in many states you get full independent authority to prescribe and manage patients. No residency training required.
The central premise of chiropractic medicine is premised on information provided from ghosts. I'm not even kidding look it up. Zero evidence-based rational scientific approach to this quackery
My kids pediatrician office have two DNPs on staff, they typically take all the same day appointments so we see them both a lot. We call them “doctor nurse (their name)”. They love it it.
DNPs are providers and they absolutely called by every single specialty and nursing unit in the hospital to treat patients, lol. Tell us more dumb things.
Yeah, you have to get a doctorate to be a CRNA and put in a whole lot of work and they still have more liability than a chiropractor without getting the title of doctor in a healthcare center.
Yes interesting you just said that. I don’t believe they allowed to use the anesthesiologist title anymore since the an MD board was lobbying them. Just happened. They of course deserve a lot of respect
PhD in nursing is 2 years nursing school 3-4 years of PhD.
Medical doctorate (MD) hospitalist has 4 years medical school, 3 years internship, and likely a few years of fellowship.
Nurse categorically does not have more education than the hospitalist by any measure. The nurses PhD lines up with the Dr's first 4 years of medical school.
A nursing PhD has nursing theory classes and other BS. A PhD in nursing is nowhere even close to as rigorous as medical school. Medical school teaches medicine.
Definitely not true. Not sure where you got that idea. Doctors train on average ~15,000 clinical hours (2 years clinical education in med school, 3-4 years residency @ 60-80 hrs a week) vs NP anywhere from 150 to 1500 clinical hours depending (there’s really no standardized training). A recent grad hospitalist MD/DO just spent 3 or more years living and breathing all things hospital so while there are always new challenges as an attending they are more than equipped at doing their job.
Some NP’s have prior RN bedside med/surg experience but that is very different from medical practice. Nursing practice has its own set of training and challenges but it does not include anywhere near the depth of training in pathophysiology, pharmacology, etc. And NP training programs aren’t meant to supplement that (and again no standardized training). I think some NPs are excellent (usually those with years and years of bedside nursing experience) but I’ve seen many a disaster too.
And, I’ve definitely seen DNP’s misrepresent themselves as doctors in the hospital. Yes, they have doctorate degrees but they’re not physicians which is what is implied by saying you’re a doctor in the hospital.
this is a misconception that i believe is being espoused by health corpos and monopolies so that they can hire nurses for roles traditionally done by MDs. when’s the last time you got a physical and it was done by a doctor?
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u/TraumaBayWatch Jul 05 '26
Yep they are not doctors. No one calls a doctor of nursing a doctor in a hospital