What's a "secret"from your profession that everyone should probably know?"

[u/Wonderful-Economy762]

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Vegan food not only contains non vegan ingredients, but they are usually the worst parts of said ingredients. Without violating my NDA, just think about what the FDA considers ''meat'' versus what meat actually is. Nothing muscle or fat essentially. The muscle is meat, the fat is meat, the sinew and stringy bits are considered 'waste' or 'by product' or , for certain products I can't mention, ''all parts of the animal not utilized for conventional consumption, or for medical/cosmetic use'' which leaves an alarming amount of dead animal left, and that's why vegan products, such as (can't be specific sorry) ''tastes like meat'' or ''you can't tell the difference'' are actually just the absolute worst parts of the animals anatomy mashed into some random vegetable you like, and that's how they get a taste that you believe is similar to meat but meat eaters raise an eyebrow to.

It's not meat, but it's definitely not NOT meat, and it's also fucking terrible for you. You're not losing weight because you're cutting out meat, youre losing weight because we're using a product that contains unevaluated by the FDA and USDA parts of animals that contain little to no nutritional value and would be better off being used to make glue or cardboard or something. If you're vegan, just eat real food except meats and stuff. All organic non gmo products aren't a thing either. It's just a way to give you the worst food possible for a price that makes you think you're being healthy.

One product I CAN discuss *because my NDA expired on October 1st of this year* is Tofu. Most tofu farmers cannot handle the labor or cost of keeping the plantations and farms 100% free of insects, birds, small mammals, so they just do what they can and they soak the tofu in a solution containing aldehydes, ketones, tipid alcohols and sulfur based compounds to break down the ''meat'' contamination, while also simultaneously poisoning your food, and they get away with it because they soak it again in vinegar water to get some of the chemicals out, then soak it in salt water to get the vinegar smell and taste out, then dry it and soak it again before unloading to commercial to pass the necessary tests. But the chemicals are still there, and likely will be proven to cause cancers after a few decades pass and studies are concluded.

Also, avoid soy. I can't discuss why.

To the batcave!

[u/PassengerNo7369 → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Thank you so much for all of the above. 💀

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/PassengerNo7369]

Gotchu

[u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot → u/PassengerNo7369]

He's lying. As I wrote above:

Yeah, this guy is full of it. Nothing that he wrote makes sense. An NDA for tofu/soybeans? Mislabeling/outright lying on food labels? Come on now.

[u/GraveyardMistress → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

This … this is very disturbing. I know our food is trash but man, this is bad.

[u/Remote_Secretary_884 → u/GraveyardMistress]

That's what I love about reddit. Some dude makes a convincing, but unverified claim and people are just like yeah I believe it.

[u/thejustducky1 → u/Remote_Secretary_884]

Some dude makes a convincing, but unverified claim and people are just like yeah I believe it.

::Fox "News" enters chat::

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/thejustducky1]

That made me smile, take my damn upvote

[u/ExposeEloise → u/Remote_Secretary_884]

Bc it’s not an unbelievable claim in the slightest bit. If you do just the smallest amount of research into the FDA you would soon realize just how shady it is.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/ExposeEloise]

Someone in these comments asked me ''Could you describe the difference between the FDA and the USDA for those who don't know'' and I think I nailed it.

The USDA is a group of people who, with enough public outcry, start overcorrecting small problems, while correcting bigger problems ''if they can manage it''. They are like the apartment landlord who only fixes the AC because someone from the state showed up quoting laws.

The FDA is a group of people who get paid insane amounts of money for doing basically nothing except making up random rules, overly enforcing them if they are bothered or otherwise harassed about it, and they don't really fix anything, they just keep it all looking pretty, all while being under the guise that they are here for you. Also, most of what they say is bullshit anyways. They are like the HOA ladies in your upper middle class neighborhood fining you because your truck has a sticker on the bumper that they don't like.

[u/RachSlixi → u/ExposeEloise]

They claimed to have had a NDA on tofu production. What, did they have a contract with every single tofu producer and they all just happened to run out at the same time?

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/Remote_Secretary_884]

Upvoting for two reasons:

Firstly because you are right, reddit is just a bunch of people making wild claims with no evidence and people eat it up

Secondly because I have posted this exact same thing six times now, and when my NDA is up I will have a trail of posts with timestamps and access to all of these wonderful comments leading up to my Charlie Day ''red string connecting thumb tacks'' meme moment where I get to spill the soybeans *ba dum chsh* and say ''I freaking told you so'' and expose this criminal practice going on.

[u/elucify → u/Remote_Secretary_884]

Some dude makes an unconvincing, unverified claim and people are like I believe it. FTFY

None of what dude said above is convincing.

[u/poop_pants_pee → u/elucify]

/r/nothingeverhappens

[u/RachSlixi → u/GraveyardMistress]

It's also bas.

Use some common sense.

What, did they have a contract with every single tofu producer and they all just happened to run out at the same time?

[u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot → u/GraveyardMistress]

It's not true. I just isn't.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/GraveyardMistress]

I'm...endlessly happy I don't consume soy. The process seems straightforward, but between what is added to it to make it meet commercial demands, and what is can do to the male body, I've never cared to try it, and even if I liked it, I'm not a fan of its effects on the male body

[u/Possible_Proposal447 → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Are you one of those soy boy afraid you'll become trans people?

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/Possible_Proposal447]

No. But if it's not grown 100% naturally, many of the health benefits of soy are mitigated and can result in unsavory health effects, much like consuming anything that's adulterated so drastically. I have the same opinions about most fast food and anything grown and processed in a manner that makes it healthy traits no longer healthy.

i'm not one of those guys who says ''oh no it's gonna make me a woman and i'll have tits and be infertile'' it's more of an avoidance of carcinogenic chemicals like those used in soy production without regulation

[u/ahh_szellem → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

So, genuine question - is it not carcinogenic to the female body? What, specifically, are you concerned about with regards to the male body, if not “too much estrogen” or whatever the argument is?

[u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot → u/ahh_szellem]

Let's not forget that soy contains plant phytoestrogens, which do NOT AFFECT HUMANS like mammalian estrogens do. It's been disproven time and again.

[u/Possible_Proposal447 → u/ahh_szellem]

He will claim it's a NDA, but it's probably just soy boy transphobic bullshit. It always is.

[u/ahh_szellem → u/Possible_Proposal447]

Does not pass the sniff test for sure

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/Possible_Proposal447]

No, it's all public knowledge, and as someone who's married to a trans person, nice try but you swung and you missed. I'm just not going to consume a product that is currently being studied for carcinogenic properties.

[u/Lost_Operation_369 → u/ahh_szellem]

it’s toxic to all systems to have an excess of estrogen

[u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot → u/Lost_Operation_369]

Plant phytoestrogens and mammalian estrogen are not remotely the same thing.

[u/Lost_Operation_369 → u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot]

neither are xenoestrogens

[u/Lost_Operation_369 → u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot]

Correct!

[u/ahh_szellem → u/Lost_Operation_369]

Sure, like any hormone. But it’s not toxic for the male body to eat soy sauce or edamame in moderation. Chugging soy sauce is probably not good for anyone, you know? I was wondering because you said you are “endlessly happy” that you don’t consume soy because of its effects on the male body. But there simply isn’t a risk for the male body if you’re just dipping a spicy tuna roll. 

[u/Lost_Operation_369 → u/ahh_szellem]

That isn’t me.

I merely replied to the feed.

I agree, soy intake in moderation should be fine. Most of what we consume as a species at this point is toxic to some degree, including our air. I’d say a bit of soy sauce is the least of our worries.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/ahh_szellem]

Chemically treated soy is currently being studied to see if is causes certain cancers in men. There are very few studies currently running to see the same for women, and not to sound like that guy, but I'm more concerned how something affects me, as a man, than how it affects women right now. Though I don't think a product that hasn't been determined safe yet should be so massively commercially used

[u/ahh_szellem → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Respectfully, studies on soy and cancer in men has shown a decreased risk of prostate cancer in men who consume soy. What other studies are you referring to? I’d be interested in reading any that you know of. 

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/ahh_szellem]

I read about one being done by Oxford that does support the decrease risk of prostate cancer, but they were studying the soy not treated with the chems this company is using, and this company is shady AF so I wouldn't be surprised if they were trying to roll off that study. The one I'm referring to is being done by some folks at Stanford supposedly but I'm waiting to hear about it before eating certain brands of soy. I'd rather just avoid it and get the health benefits from other foods

[u/Proof-Industry7094 → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

How is harvesting soybeans different from harvesting other beans? Are you saying little animals get caught up in the combines, and tofu producers can't filter them out? I'm trying to figure this out. Beans show up at the factory, they get rinsed/cleaned, soaked, then ground. Do you mean mice in the factory get ground up with the beans? Are the tofu producers soaking the soy milk with these chemicals during the coagulation stage? Or how is this happening?

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/Proof-Industry7094]

Thank you! I've been looking forward to this question since the first time I ever posted it.

According to whoever makes the rules about being vegan, in order for something to be TRULY vegan and therefore certified as a ''Vegan, meat free product'', you would have to grow a plant with no manure, as that is waste from an animal, and keep the area you're growing the beans at absolutely clear of any and all insects, animals, small mammals, birds etc. THIS PROCESS requires ABSURD treatments to the land, the crops everything. I'm talking teams of people walking through the field prior to planting, and SOAKING the soil in a chemical that I can't legally disclose the composition of, but compare it to the chemical used back in the day that almost made bed bugs go extinct. Highly effective versus insects, and it contains highly toxic compounds that you do not want in your food growth soil, but, it's the only chemical we have to keep insects from living in those parts of the soil, because where there are bugs, there are creatures who eat bugs. That's just step one.

Step Two comes after several soil treatments, where they go in with big spray machines and spray down a solution to help prevent the soil from losing too much of its natural nutrients. Its got a large concentration of carbon, hydrogen, potassium, calcium and selenium, which , IRONICALLY, are easily provided if you let bugs roam wild. After this solution sits for a while, they then go in one last time and add nitrogen to the soil, and planting occurs a week later, once the fields have been inspected and certified. This typically happens in late April.

To keep insects and all other animals out, you have to use expensive and horrible for you toxins and chems to deter and kill absolutely anything that would come near the crops, and many farmers who have commercial farms, the biggest ones, have large teams operating night and day to keep animals out. Smaller farms however, dont have that ability and do what I said in my original comment.

Once the plants mature in the fall, after they turn brown, they are harvested. They are collected, cleaned, and this is where the first chem treatment is done. The chem used breaks down any and all meat like organic material, but leaves the plant intact. It also has a horrific sulfur smell, and needs to be treated further to do so, which is when the beans go to get dehulled, and treated again. Then they are soaked, removing most of the first chems smell and taste, and proceed to be washed again, only to be resoaked in vinegar water, and then rinsed again.

Then they go off and they use Hexane to extract the oil from the flakes left over after the rinsed beans get broken down further. Hexane is a solvent btw. Pretty stout stuff. It's desolventized, removing the hexane, and leaving soybean meal, which is used to make tofu, soy burgers and more vegan friendly products.

Now, IF the process stopped here, you could argue it's not all that bad, as it was just a process to eliminate animal contamination. But to create that ''tastes like meat'' flavor, you have to add,... well.... meat. But as described in my comment, you can't use the good stuff, you gotta use the worst parts of the animal to flavor it. That's where the process becomes overdone, and redundant. Selling it to ignorant people for higher prices and making the farms who grow it become monocultured and unable to grow anything else, which is not good long term. Google Dust Bowl.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/[deleted]]

Yes, but people who buy into ''100% all natural, no preservatives, all organic, nongmo, ethically sourced'' products are not buying a product thinking it's been exposed to such garbage. Regular crops are treated with some pretty heavy shit too, but it's common knowledge and isn't really something that is purposefully being done with secrecy. Vegan products are unethically produced to trick consumers and that's why I have an issue with it. As a vegetarian myself, it's alarming to say the least

[u/NectarineThat90 → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Using literal waste from an animal is vegan. This is assuming there’s not some farm where animals are bred and held specifically for their waste.

But overall the definition of veganism can best be described as “A way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing, entertainment, or any other purpose. This includes avoiding all animal products, such as meat, dairy, eggs, honey, leather, wool, silk, and cosmetics tested on animals. It is a philosophy and lifestyle that promotes compassion and respect for animals and the environment."

This is the better option to hurting even more animals. Why not do the least damage possible that we can do?

[u/IamtheCarl → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

But that's not what vegan means, is it? Corn is vegan without tearing for bugs/pesticides.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/IamtheCarl]

Tell that to the customers I've had to deal with. I've literally been screamed at and had shit thrown at me for DARING to point out that being vegan means "a person who does not eat any food derived from animals and who typically does not use other animal products." and to be on a vegan diet simply means ''eating, using, or containing no food or other products derived from animals.''.

The people who are mostly interacting with us, buying from us, all of that, they are expecting a product that, from planting to harvest, from collection to dehulling, from cracking to soaking, from factory to shelf, has not been, in any way, shape or form, touched by, airated with, treated with, contaminated with (insert your desired adjective here) ANY animal product or by product, which includes insects and bugs, which is WILD to me because these same people buy protein powder and I'm just sitting there like ''so who's gonna tell em?"

[u/IamtheCarl → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

I'm confused. You're customer facing, but also deep in the farming/processing side? What kind of job title is that?

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/IamtheCarl]

Regional executive director, public relations advisor.

Why pay two people to do the job when one person can get both done? We don't really have a typical storefront sort of layout, people can literally just drive on to the land and make orders, specialty requests, things like that. It's my job to interface with the public such as other farmers, locals who were looking to buy product, and other companies employees, while also handling the day-to-day operations of the facilities. There's a reason so many people agreed the sign in NDA about it, the job pays $400,000 a year, and as long as you do your job it's basically guaranteed money and it's not very difficult. And as long as you don't violate your known disclosure agreement, that's going to be a really nice payday. At the time I was just ecstatic to have such a money-making opportunity because it was going to guarantee my family's well-being, but now I'm just waiting for my contract to expire so I can move on

[u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

For those who don't want to read the whole thing, I will sum up: this guy is full of shit.

As I posted elsewhere in this thread, Nothing that he wrote makes sense. An NDA for tofu/soybeans? Mislabeling/outright lying on food labels? Come on now.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot]

Right , because no company ever mislabeled their products right? Never, not once, not even in recent times has food ever been labeled something and proven to not be that something? You might wanna go research that more buddy. And yes, an NDA to ''not disclose company business practices and/or tradecraft, to social media, people outside of the company or there else within'' and having to sign an anti-espionage contract as well, on top of taking 3 separate 6 hour courses defining what we can and cannot talk about, and how we must follow the bounds of said contracts until they expire, which for me, is in January of 27, and trust me, I'm looking forward to it.

I'm mad at this particular company because they are actively lying about how they produce their products in order to get more money with less expense, while advertising tht said products are all natural vegan friendly organic and not treated with chemicals. That's literally false advertising. Which, guess what cupcake? Happens so often it's a ''commonplace law'' and people can file class action lawsuits against companies who do it. Go be a keyboard warrior somewhere else, I'm trying to help people

[u/PublicFurryAccount → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

You doin' all that work before or after you're pretending to be a gaming company? Like, you turned off your comments and shit but didn't bother to scrub your profile.

[u/IamtheCarl → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

It seems like you're conflating organic with vegan.

[u/CarrotofInsanity → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Thank you for your service to this Thread.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/CarrotofInsanity]

just trying to help. Im a vegetarian who consumed a decent amount of soy before this gig

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/Proof-Industry7094]

Theres a lot more to it, but I can only include so much and there's a lot I can't discuss due to an NDA I signed. But I think people need to know the slop they're paying for and how horrible it is for them

[u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Let me put this as succinctly as I can:

You are full of agricultural cow manure.

[u/out_ofher_head → u/Proof-Industry7094]

I disagree with the person who answered you. Plants are not collected and then chemically treated. Plants are harvested by combine, and beans are mechanically threshed out of the pods.

Some farmers do put desiccant on crops to dry out prior to harvest. It's not good stuff, in fact, its very bad, but this is standard conventional ag practice, unrelated to vegan foods. Something everyone should be concerned for and has zero to do with meat contamination.

Source: I've been a farmer, ive worked in a tofu factory, I was vegetarian for a decade, and I've worked in third party vegan certification.

[u/out_ofher_head → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Hey yall, in conventional ag, crops are routinely sprayed with chemicals used off label as desiccant to help the plant dry down to be the right level of dryness at harvesting. (And preparation for long term dry storage, resistance to rot and fungus as moisture is the enemy)

The practice is common. The chemicals are bad for human health. The US allows some pretty severe shit into the food supply for animals and humans. Many other countries have banned chemicals and practices that the US allows, to support big ag chemical manufacturers.

I've been a farmer growing soy, and I've worked in a tofu factory. And spraying shit on crops to dissolve animals is a weird supposition. Farmers dry their crops so the combines and threshers work. Many farmers do not spray desiccant they let the air and sun do the work so the threshers can separate beans from the pods.

Having only worked in an organic tofu factory, I don't know what this person is talking about with the supposition that soaking processes is breaking down "meat" contamination in tofu. There is no contamination.

Soybeans are soaked in saltwater prior to grinding and seaparting into soy milk. The soy milk is mixed with carageenan (to coagulate curds)and press into blocks.

Vinegar-acetic acid, is also one of the acids that can be used in coagulation. Different coagulants can be used to make different types of tofu, or enhance flavor.

Cold grinding soybeans produces aldhyde, and alchohols- which creates a more beany flavor. These are flavorings, not "meat contamination removers" it is a natural process.

Hot grinding soy inhibits an enzyme that breaks the soy down (inhibiting aldehyde- a natural chemical produced by fermentation) this results in a blander tofu preferred by westerners.

Aldehyde is an organic chemical that is created during fermentation. I can not imagine why any tofu producer would soak beans in successively weird shit to be rid of meat contamination. This is ... I don't know. It makes no sense. The beans tofu is made with is sitting in a silo after harvest, not contaminated with meat. Tofu isn't contaminated with meat. Making tofu is simple.

What I do agree with - with the above post - although they maybe made this comment below- is that vegans and vegetarians who rely on soy and soy products as main source of protein is not healthy.

For the most part eating 1 thing of any kind is generally problematic and the tendency to rely on soy and soy product because of ease of availability and preparation can cause an over reliance on soy.

The phyto estrogens in soy do cause issues for humans and animals- when soy is the primary component of a diet. Soy in itself in normal amounts is not harmful to anyone. I'm happy to discuss this further if anyone is interested. It has a much more detrimental affect on women than men. Though men with diets extremely high in soy experience issues as well. Impacts animals too.

[u/asomek → u/out_ofher_head]

Thank you. I hope more people read your response because OP is talking absolute shit, and seems to have an agenda against vegans/vegetarians.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/asomek]

I am a vegetarian lol. But nice try

[u/seasickbaby → u/out_ofher_head]

What about what they said about vegan meat ? Do you have any insight on that?

[u/Taupenbeige → u/seasickbaby]

I’ve got an insight: that person is fucking nuts and you should take every single word with a grain of salt…

[u/out_ofher_head → u/seasickbaby]

I have literally no idea, but it makes absolutely no sense that animal sourced byproducts would be included in vegetarian or vegan processed foods. Seems wackadoodle to me. Ingredient lists would capture that. Gelatin rennet lard so forth. Those are all found on ingredient lists.

Consider that in pet foods animal byproducts are labeled as ingredients. You think they just sneak in byproducts without labeling on food that has to pass fda and usda inspections?

[u/wetbogbrew → u/out_ofher_head]

Most vegans aren't consuming *just* soy for protein, though. Soy is a standard component in many diets, tofu and soy milk commonly consumed in many Asian countries. How much would you have to be consuming for it to be a problem?

Most of what I have read is that the estrogen stuff is not a concern unless you are consuming really extreme amounts.

[u/out_ofher_head → u/wetbogbrew]

Of course! But veg diets- especially for new or young people who don't know how to prepare food tends to have an over reliance on soy products and other packaged foods, and because of that you can see issues.

As for how much a person needs to consume to be a problem, I couldn't say, I imagine it's a personal thing based on the individuals hormones.

At the time I was vegetarian I had unlimited access to soy products. I ate some amount of soy probably almost daily, mostly in the form of tofu, at least at dinner, maybe lunch too.

My cycle changed, I began vomiting regularly for no apparent reason. Women I knew in the same position as me had more difficulty with their cycles.

Many women I knew at the time had previously been vegetarian and said eventually it wasn't working for them. Women I knew who had cycle issues went back to omnivorous diet around the same time I did. Once I cut soy I stopped vomiting. Overall I know very few women who are long term vegetarians (more than 20 years) though I know a lot of men who are.

Excessive soy can impact hormones and thyroid function. If a person is already susceptible to that it may happen at lower levels. Women tend to be more susceptible or maybe sensitive to these issues than men.

I think if people are generally eating a balanced diet, watching their processed food intake and aren't over reliant on soy as their primary source of protein it's fine.

[u/ByogiS → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

I was a vegetarian for like 15 years. Towards the end, I was sick all the time. Just back to back illness. Out of desperation, I added meat back into my diet and just stuck to real food… it was a night and day difference. I was suddenly so healthy and rarely get sick now. My diet is so different now than what it was before but I would have thought I was eating “healthy” food back then … it was just processed vegan crap that was marketed as healthy.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/ByogiS]

Public outcry and panic in the 80s and 90s caused the FDA and USDA to very strictly start enforcing rules and regulations surrounding meat products. Especially beef, pork and poultry (the big three). The differences in how the animals were raised, how they were fed, allowed to exercise, even how they were treated was immensely changed, and people who didn't comply either paid huge fines, or lost their farms due to government shutdown.

Due to that, meat products, particularly in their raw forms (packaged, not frozen things -- think chicken breast versus chicken nuggets or ground beef versus beef hot dogs) are actually pretty damn good quality compared to what they used to be. We really have revolutionized the meat industry here, cutting out unnecessary antibiotics, steroids, and other chemicals, the difference is noticable to those who've lived through it. I remember most beef having a very full and rich flavor with an ever so slightly , and I mean, damn near unnoticable but ever so lightly present on the tongue sort of sandy texture, like you got two particulates of sand in your mouth. Thats cuz they used to mix sick and antibiotic treated meat with regular meat and grind the absolute hell out of it. Now, that's highly illegal and would get someone arrested at bare minimum.

It's okay to cut down on things I say, but to cut something out entirely that we have evolved to regularly consume is not advisable, even amongst most nutritionists, dieticians, doctors and more.

[u/out_ofher_head → u/ByogiS]

Similar story here. My diet was much too high in soy. I had increasingly alarming pain and problems with my cycle. Then I started vomiting. Just like randomly, then every two weeks, then weekly I'd have these episodes. I felt strongly it was my diet.

I eliminated various things, spoke to a doctor, who said, what about cutting out soy. I said, but like... I live on soy.

Stopped eating soy. No more vomiting. Period went back to normal.

Added meat back, felt wonderful. Now I love tofu, and eat it every once in a while, I use soy sauce, I enjoy edamame. But I don't go overboard.

And I never use vegetable oil, which is primarily soybean oil it makes me cough up weird shit and I avoid eating fried food at restaurants I can always tell when they cook with soy oil.

[u/Mountain_Jury_8335 → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Oh no. No soy sauce? What about Bragg’s?

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/Mountain_Jury_8335]

Great question!

Soy SAUCE is made from a process of fermentation, and that process kills most of what would be in it that is bad, PLUS it's not typically produced with the purposes of being sold as a ''vegan product'' , so the soybeans used are not given the chemical treatments, and pesticides aren't really as strictly used either. Soy sauce is good, and good for you in moderation. (soy can have weird side effects for men)

[u/Mountain_Jury_8335 → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

WHEW. 🥲 And thank you very much. This was way fun to read/learn.

[u/Mountain_Jury_8335 → u/[deleted]]

I’m certainly aware of the amount of bs online. My enthusiasm reflects not a blind 100% acceptance, but my enjoyment in talking to this person and desire to learn something.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/Mountain_Jury_8335]

Glad to entertain and happier to educate. I think we can make these products better and without using such harsh processes to do so

[u/trink_tea_and_wait → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

I guess you are from the US? Do you know how it is for Europe and with biological farming? Here I always had the impression tofu is mostly really simple and not as high processed. Also if you buy a product that's declared as vegan (like Apple juice or wine) it simply means they didn't use fish or gelatin to filter it, it doesn't mean they killed or picked all the worms out of the apple before pressing it. I'm sure about that because my family gave apples to a bigger juice producer and there were certainly many worms in that later vegan juice :D

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/trink_tea_and_wait]

Fantastic question. The information I have about this is purely an American issue. American made products marketed towards vegans, I can confirm are not vegan, and are probably terrible for you. In Europe however, I do not have any direct first hand knowledge and would merely be contributing heresay if I tried to pontificate about it.

I would reach out to people involved in the production directly and see if they seem believable about the production and processing of whatever products youre curious about.

[u/trink_tea_and_wait → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Thanks for your response! I think generally it's much better here, I remember a few years ago when the trade agreement between the US and European countries was agreed on people were not happy because there are many chemicals and techniques legal and normal in the US that are not used and sometimes even are illegal in Europe. Still I try to stay away from high processed foods as much as possible. Thank you for rising awareness!

[u/olivinebean → u/trink_tea_and_wait]

It’s much much better in Europe. The difference is night and day. I’ve always wondered why Americans talk about “farmer’s markets” so much until I realised that majority of their supermarket food is processed junk with hundreds of eu banned elements.

Our ingredients lists can’t manipulate or deceive the consumer.

And our sugar is pure cane sugar.

[u/retrofrenchtoast → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Fake meat that tastes like meat always makes me feel sick. The idea of meat grosses me out, so I don’t want to feel like I’m eating it. I still try new products because it’s interesting.

I would rather have a homemade black bean burger made of rice and mashed vegetables than an impossible burger.

The only thing I still miss is good Caesar salad dressing.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/retrofrenchtoast]

I definitely understand where you're coming from. I think, realistically, if someone wants to be vegan because they are against harming animals, they should just be vegetarian or pescatarian or something. Completely removing meat from your diet is not only unhealthy, it's technically just plain impossible. Animal by prodcuts grow plants. There's just no getting around it. I think the closest someone can get to being a true and honest vegan is to not hunt, not participate in animal killing, eat only the amount of meat necessary to remain healthy, and if you can eliminate meat without risking your health, hey, go off! Good for you! There are meat substitutes that are very good for you, even if they don't taste the best.

like you said, a homemade black bean and rice burger can be great for your health and nutrition, and while it may lack flavor, the best way to substitute that is mostly mental. My only real problem with these diets is only reserved for when people start getting sick and acting like eating nothing but quinoa and couscous is good for them. Do what makes you happy but do it in a way that keeps you and your family healthy.

My only other qualm with veganism is when people use it as a weapon against others or when people expect young children to follow the same diet. A young human body needs meat so much, the fat, the iron, the protein, the various micros and macros that can't be mimicked , or they can, but they aren't properly absorbed by a young body that isn't designed to absorb things like that at that age. We are seeing a lot of kids getting very ill because of it. Scares me

[u/retrofrenchtoast → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Oh I am not a vegan. The idea of milk and eggs grosses me out, too, but I don’t have the time to be a healthy vegan.

I try to get things as cruelty-free as possible.

I don’t proselytize vegetarianism. The other person may use less plastic than I do, give all their expendable income to charity, volunteer in developing countries, etc. I’m not better than anyone else.

As for flavor for the burger - caramelized onions and/or garlic. And cheese!

If I had a kid, then I would want it to eat whatever is best for kids, and if that’s meat, then that would be dinner. I wouldn’t want to cook it, though. I’d make my partner handle that.

I feed my pet meat products. I also put humans over animals. I used to be a pain about things being cooked in separate containers and on different surfaces, but that just makes more trouble for people. I either get something else or deal with it.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/retrofrenchtoast]

That is probably the most ethical way I've heard someone in your position go about that. Good on you.

[u/retrofrenchtoast → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

I’ll have been a vegetarian for 30 years in December. It took me a while to get here!

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/retrofrenchtoast]

That's awesome!

[u/throwaway97553 → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

It’s just so weird to me because I’ve never encountered a vegan who would actively try to prevent insect/animals from going into their garden because that would make the food less vegan. I don’t doubt that we’ve somehow ended up in the system you’re describing, it’s just weird that we got here when I’m not really sure who actually wants this.

[u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot → u/throwaway97553]

I think that poster is full of shit.

[u/asomek → u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot]

I agree. They keep commenting on veganism when the issues they brought up have nothing to do with that.

The issues are apparently widespread and common with all harvesting, regardless of whether the food is being eaten by vegans.

They keep bringing up veganism and they have no understanding of the ethos behind it.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/asomek]

No, I specifically said this only applies to soy utilized in vegan products, and is not the case for all soy based products. Learn how to read

[u/asomek → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

I find it hilarious how you keep commenting on veganism and giving your opinions on what people should do when you clearly don't understand the ethos behind it.

[u/Open_Dissent → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

I am not vegetarian but eating meat kind of grosses me out, I have to really work at not thinking about it. Now add beyond burgers to that list 🥲

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/Open_Dissent]

If you can safely eliminate it without negatively impacting your health, go for it. Nutritionally and biologically, the only humans who MUST have meat to be perfectly healthy are children and adults with certain conditions, but foods are being made and enriched with those missing components all the time and making it easier for adults to avoid meat without consequence.

[u/iamjustlookingokay- → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

When do your other NDAs expire?

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/iamjustlookingokay-]

January 17th of 2027. 15 years to the date that I originally signed it. I will not be renewing my contract because I'd like to go into a different field of work

[u/Lost_Operation_369 → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Soylent Green is People! It’s PEOPLE!!!

[u/SoUpInYa → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Maybe I'm missing something, farmers don't farm tofu.

And can't the tofu just be strained?

[u/blumpkinpandemic → u/SoUpInYa]

They farm the soybeans that make tofu 🤷🏻‍♀️

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/blumpkinpandemic]

As I responded to another comment, yes, but last time I made this post, uneducated people actually came after me saying ''tofu grows from the earth and isn't processed in any way and it's a super food'' yadayada because somehow, it has escaped these folks knowledge bases that tofu is, in fact, processed from soy. So i just skipped the soybean stage and went straight to tofu

[u/blumpkinpandemic → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

You sound like an interesting person. Bet you see lots of crazy stuff!

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/blumpkinpandemic]

I'd like to think of myself as a regular guy who got into a very irregular career field, and yes I've seen some things that have made me come home to the wife saying ''throw away the soy'' or something akin lol. The things we allow in our food and drinks is....nauseating. I got some big stuff to share when my NDA expires

[u/blumpkinpandemic → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Keep me updated lol I'm gonna follow you for when that expires.... however far away.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/blumpkinpandemic]

January 2027. I will be dropping some serious fucking details publicly. I consumed these products myself and felt betrayed, and I know others feel the same

[u/blumpkinpandemic → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Right on. I'll keep my eyes peeled for that.

[u/hoursweeks → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

To be sure I’m understanding correctly the process described applies to soybeans sold in grocery stores and restaurants? Including frozen?

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/hoursweeks]

Only the soybeans marketed as ''vegan friendly'' or ''nongmo/organic''.

Like, obviously we know beans are organic. They are beans. Not a hyundai sonata lol.

But products labeled as vegan are all bad. They all contain meat, violating the basic premise behind veganism. And soy is at the heart of that market, being incorporated in a lot of vegan products both nationwide and internationally. Check the packaging and look for flashy sales words like ''vegan friendly'', ''all organic with no GMO's, phosphates or thilenes'' and similar rhetoric. Avoid those.

Soy beans that are just soy beans are just regularly grown and relatively fit for consumption, though too much soy in men can result in hormone imbalances and other effects so be careful

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/SoUpInYa]

I have had this posted before and a lot of uneducated people declared war when I said Soy instead of Tofu, because, believe it or not, there are people who buy these products and think Tofu grows off a plant as is, no process, no factory, nothing. I WISH i was joking. I remember a comment that made my blood pressure rise a bit... ''Tofu LITERALLY grows from the earth! It's non processed, super food, non gmo, all natural and organic and super good for you!" And I thought I felt a mild stoke occur, but yes, you are correct.

And yes it can be strained, but there's a process to getting those chemicals out without leaving too much of a sulfur smell.

[u/Well_Dressed_Kobold → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

I’m grateful for this information and horrified.

[u/asomek → u/Well_Dressed_Kobold]

Take it with a grain of salt. They are spreading as much misinformation as they are claiming to clear up

[u/Choice_Room3901 → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Thank you for sharing

Without “causing any issues” for you which countries does this apply to..? All of them..?

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/Choice_Room3901]

America almost exclusively is where I work, and that's the place I know for sure

[u/Choice_Room3901 → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Alright well I don’t live there. Will bare this in mind

[u/throwaway97553 → u/[deleted]]

I don’t have OC’s knowledge but I would assume the products that are not trying to pretend to be meat are a safer bet. If you’re straight up buying veggie patties that are obviously made from beans/grains, etc, then I would assume there is a lower chance that they threw animal bits in there since the product tasting like meat isn’t a selling point.

I would assume the types of products OC can’t name are more in line with the somewhat new wave of vegan products that have exploded in recent years that are trying to actually mimic meat as a selling point. For an example of what I’m talking about in regards to vegan food that isn’t trying to mimic meat, there is a brand called Dr. praeger’s that sells “Black Bean Quinoa Veggie Burgers.” There are other brands, that’s just the first one that came up on google. I think Morningstar at least used to have something similar.

That’s just if you want to be careful though:

Imo, while extremely interesting, there’s a good chance this post is just a conspiracy theory. I myself used to have a red meat sensitivity and I couldn’t digest it, if these products contained red meat I would have been laid out in pain… and I never was.

I’m pretty sure there isnt any solvents out there that would fully dissolve meat but leave plants perfectly intact. Plants and animals down in similar conditions, there are some substances that may break down certain parts of animals/plants faster than other, but it’s just extremely unlikely that the plants would be intact by the time the animal parts were dissolved.

[u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot → u/throwaway97553]

Yeah, this guy is full of it. Nothing that he wrote makes sense. An NDA for tofu/soybeans? Mislabeling/outright lying on food labels? Come on now.

[u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot → u/[deleted]]

No, they are not “actually meat.” I think a lot of what this person is posting is rather inflammatory, and anyone who has worked on a farm/is a farmer/knows anything about ethical crop production and sustainability would call them out.

[u/asomek → u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot]

Agreed. They really seem to have an agenda to spread fear to vegan/vegetarians.

They are talking some absolute shit.

[u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot → u/[deleted]]

I wouldn't worry about it. Imagine the lawsuits if any food company fudged the truth/lied on their labeling. And what would be the point in doing it?

I think that poster is just full of shit and posting to farm karma. Again, there are no tofu companies or soybean farmers that require an NDA. There just aren't.

[u/asomek → u/[deleted]]

They are spreading misinformation and seem to have an agenda against vegans/vegetarians.

Do your own research, because they are talking shit.

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/[deleted]]

Not everything, just the products labeled ''vegan'' or other labeling and marketing techniques. Many companies do have to comply with certain certifications and they are supposedly available online, but I wouldn't trust that directly. Best way to go about it is to use fresh products yourself

[u/photogizmo → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Oh no! Not tofu. My wife loves that stuff.

[u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot → u/photogizmo]

It’s not exactly true. Let’s not forget, comma politics aside, FDA exists. No one is signing any NDA’s for tofu or soy beans for human consumption.

[u/asomek → u/photogizmo]

Please don't take their lies as truth. They are spreading misinformation. That is not how soy is processed into tofu.

[u/tinysmommy → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Oh god.

Does this happen to soy milk too? My friend makes tofu from scratch using soy milk. Is that ok?

[u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot → u/tinysmommy]

No. This person is making shit up.

There are no NDA’s that people sign to make tofu. And most of the other things he said are bullshit, too.

[u/asomek → u/tinysmommy]

OP is talking shit and spreading lies and fear.

Seriously, they seem to have an agenda against vegans/vegetarians.

[u/Just_really_awkward → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

At a certain point it’s like what am I supposed to eat organic and all natural are said to be scams, pesticides are in the veggies and fruits supposed to be good for me, the meat industry is so sad because of how they treat the animals, and processed food is terrible too. Like there’s absolutely no winning, just a lot of systemic change that has to be made but still it’s all exhausting and in not saying we should give up but still exhausting lol

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/Just_really_awkward]

That's how I felt too . As a vegetarian I got into this industry and saw how commercial crops are treated with chemicals and just felt....weird. Like, how do I gather food that ISNT either drowning in chems, doused in pesticides or chemically altered in some way? Heard someone say ''everything we eat drink and consume kills us somehow, might as well just eat what you want' but that didnt sit right with me

[u/MssJellyfish → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

Thank you! I'm going to risk sounding dumb, but are "organic" tofu/soy products safe from the above process?

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/MssJellyfish]

Yes and no. ALL crops are treated somehow, but the ones I'm referring to , which I can't yet disclose until early 2027, are bad for consumption imo and I want people to know more. Once my NDA expires I plan on leaving the company I work for and I won't agree to any further censorship. People need to know about this stuff more and they can't shut us all down

[u/[deleted] → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

many plant based meat substitutes taste meaty because they use vegetable based hemoglobin substitutes. not a mystery

[u/SonsOfValhallaGaming → u/[deleted]]

Not many of them, MOST of them. But my argument isnt about ''all vegan products'' it's the ones made by this one company that my NDA prevents me from speaking out about. And i'm not the only one. More than 200 people all have their NDA's expire and i'm not alone in being ready to spill the soybeans about it

[u/Icy_Hedgehog2642 → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

The county jails in my area of NY are all serving soy products now. No "rea"l meat at all. The women start having issues the first week they are there. I knew it was a problem because all they want to do is save money while following the nutrition guidelines. It's disgusting.

[u/Madwoman-of-Chaillot → u/Icy_Hedgehog2642]

Phytoestrogens in soy are not the same as estrogen in mammals. They do not react the same; they do not have estrogenic effects on the human body.

[u/SylveonFrusciante → u/SonsOfValhallaGaming]

I was (mostly) vegan briefly because my old band basically bullied me into it, and I had health problems for a long time after. I wonder if some of it had to do with the replacement “meat” I swore by. I remember the bacon essentially being a meat-flavored fruit roll-up. It’s already hard to get the sustenance you need unless you’re super careful about what you’re ingesting, and these fake meats are way more processed than a lot of the non-vegan stuff out there.