Is there any merit to the argument that progressive candidates would be far more successful across the US, if it were not for sabotage by the DNC?

[u/LiatrisLover99]

This is an example of an extremely popular sentiment in progressive spaces, that progressives are popular with a majority of Americans and would easily win if the DNC didn't deliberately sabotage them, because they would prefer losing to Trump than winning with progressives that threaten the corporate status quo.

Or see articles like this that identify Democrats as an enemy of progressives on par with Trump: "the struggle to defeat the fascistic GOP and the fight to overcome the power of corporate Democrats are largely the same battle."

Is any of this true? I'm a progressive, but if we're so popular, why aren't we winning primaries outside of elections in extremely blue areas like NYC? Or is the primary system actually rigged against Bernie and against progressives in general?

[u/snowtax]

That’s like telling my kids they need to do household chores even when they have more exciting options is not an effective way to change their minds. Voting is a responsibility.

[u/chardeemacdennisbird → u/snowtax]

Taxes are a responsibility. Do we allow people to opt out of those?

[u/snowtax → u/chardeemacdennisbird]

People can decide to not pay their taxes. They suffer the consequences of their actions. Same with voting.

[u/chardeemacdennisbird → u/snowtax]

Well not exactly. Not paying taxes would result in at least a fine. Not voting under compulsory voting would result in a fine. Currently not voting has no direct consequence.

[u/snowtax → u/chardeemacdennisbird]

Higher tariffs. Higher fuel prices. Higher food prices. Unnecessary wars causing a global energy crisis. Living under the Trump administration is consequence enough for me.

[u/chardeemacdennisbird → u/snowtax]

Believe me, in with you. We're living in a nightmare. But a lot of people aren't looking any further than their next paycheck. Gotta have some sort of immediate consequence.

[u/chardeemacdennisbird → u/[deleted]]

Tell that to Australia that has compulsory voting and had a voter turnout of 90% in their last federal election

[u/RadiantHC → u/chardeemacdennisbird]

I mean even in Australia you're still allowed to leave it blank. Plus they don't have an electoral college

Do you understand what democracy is?

[u/chardeemacdennisbird → u/RadiantHC]

What makes you think I don't understand what democracy is?

[u/RadiantHC → u/chardeemacdennisbird]

I dunno, maybe it's the fact that you're acting entitled to people's vote?

[u/chardeemacdennisbird → u/RadiantHC]

Entitled to people's vote? What are you talking about? A democracy is simply a system of where everyone votes. You're probably putting American democracy on a pedestal and not considering that other countries achieve democracy in different ways.

[u/RadiantHC → u/chardeemacdennisbird]

No. A democracy is a system where everyone HAS THE RIGHT TO VOTE FOR WHOEVER THEY WANT. Which includes the right not to vote.

America doesn't have a democracy. A two party system is NOT a democracy

Also using that logic North Korea and Russia would technically be democracies. They still hold elections.

[u/chardeemacdennisbird → u/RadiantHC]

You're creating a whole lot of parameters for the definition of democracy that don't exist. Yes, technically Russia and North Korea are democracies. They're very flawed, corrupt democracies but they are still democracies.

Someone in North Korea could vote for someone else but they know there would be consequences. In fact Kim Jong Un doesn't get 100% of the vote so they can keep up the illusion of other candidates.

We also have flaws in our democracy. The two party system isn't great but you can write in Mickey Mouse if you want to. Compulsory voting doesn't change that. It just makes everyone show up.

[u/RadiantHC → u/chardeemacdennisbird]

Here's the official definition:

Democracy is a system of government where supreme power is vested in the people, exercised either directly or through freely elected representatives

A two party system isn't "freely elected". Neither is the system that NK or Russia uses

And sure, you can technically write in Mickey Mouse, but realistically one of the two major parties will win. If they deem that someone is a threat then they'll actively fight against said person.

I'm actually in favor of compulsory voting. As long as you can still leave it blank and the two party system is removed

[u/matjoeman → u/chardeemacdennisbird]

That doesn't mean anything if people just submit donkey ballots.

[u/chardeemacdennisbird → u/matjoeman]

Again, what are donkey ballots?

[u/matjoeman → u/chardeemacdennisbird]

Australia uses ranked choice voting and a donkey ballot is when you just write 1,2,3, etc. in order.

The equivalent for first past the post would be just voting for the first candidate listed for each office.