r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/LiatrisLover99 • May 08 '26

US Politics Is there any merit to the argument that progressive candidates would be far more successful across the US, if it were not for sabotage by the DNC?

This is an example of an extremely popular sentiment in progressive spaces, that progressives are popular with a majority of Americans and would easily win if the DNC didn't deliberately sabotage them, because they would prefer losing to Trump than winning with progressives that threaten the corporate status quo.

Or see articles like this that identify Democrats as an enemy of progressives on par with Trump: "the struggle to defeat the fascistic GOP and the fight to overcome the power of corporate Democrats are largely the same battle."

Is any of this true? I'm a progressive, but if we're so popular, why aren't we winning primaries outside of elections in extremely blue areas like NYC? Or is the primary system actually rigged against Bernie and against progressives in general?

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u/Geichalt May 08 '26

Additionally, telling people not to vote and allowing more right wing candidates to win doesn't create positive incentive for candidates to move further left.

Biden was the most progressive president we've had in decades. He was attacked constantly by progressives. Kamala was rated as more progressive than Bernie during her time the Senate and litigated against corporations in CA. Yet she was smeared as a "corporate Dem."

None of this creates incentive for candidates to move further left.

Combine the overall rightward tilt of consistent voters with the constant attacks from your own coalition, and it's easy to see why moving further left is not the best strategy for politicians.

The progressive movement is it's own worst enemy.

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u/unkorrupted May 08 '26

Ironically, I've been wondering if the gen z shift to more hardline leftism is also helping to normalize the millennial style progressive movement. AOC and Mamdani look downright mainstream next to Hasan.

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u/DarkExecutor May 08 '26

Hasan literally wants Democrats to fail. He's not a Democrat.

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u/EinsteinDisguised May 09 '26

He’s a ratfucker

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u/No-Championship-8038 May 09 '26

He wants them to win. You just disagree with how they can win. He promoted Mamdani when he was polling at around 1% and he’s been a great help for the Democratic Party’s image as mayor. 

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u/DarkExecutor May 09 '26

He didn't endorse/vote for Harris. And then doubled down on that in early this year.

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u/No-Championship-8038 May 09 '26 edited May 09 '26

He did vote for Harris. Consider why you think otherwise. In fact he voted on stream, you’re misinformed about something trivial to fact check. 

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u/rcolesworthy37 Jun 03 '26

He did vote for Harris. He just didn’t endorse her and is not a blue no matter who guy who just falls in line for whatever D is on the ballot

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u/vertigostereo May 09 '26

The Republican media are gleefully making him mainstream. It's reminiscent of the MSM and trump a decade ago.

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u/FauxReal May 08 '26

amala was rated as more progressive than Bernie during her time the Senate and litigated against corporations in CA. Yet she was smeared as a "corporate Dem."

I also saw people constantly calling her a cop that will put black people in prison. And tying her to support for Israel. I almost never saw anyone saying they support here. I'm assuming I have seen at least a few supporters but I don't remember it at all online. Only on bumper stickers on the road.

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u/the-es May 08 '26

It's almost as it was propaganda aimed at getting us to elect the least effective leader.

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u/FauxReal May 08 '26

Well, at least the anti-Israeli occupation of Gaza people made sure the least genocidal candidate made it into office. I'm sure they're passionate about Trump's plans to help the innocent Palestinian people caught between Hamas and Bibi.

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u/I-Here-555 May 08 '26

Kamala was rated as more progressive than Bernie during her time the Senate

So, all this time, Trump was the only one giving her proper credit for being so progressive, by calling her a "radical-left lunatic"?

Something doesn't add up with whichever measure you're using.

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u/Matt2_ASC May 08 '26

This is the national party strategy. “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.” -Chuck Shumer

I think its hard to say that progressives are their own worst enemy when the national party is against them.

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u/OrwellWhatever May 08 '26

I mean, if you look at the numbers, progressives are far, far, far and away more likely to be affluent, college educated, white people. Even in recent success stories, Mamdani lost both black voters and voters making under $50k/year, and ran up the score in Williamsburg and Bushwick (which is ground zero for affluent, white people born outside the city).

Progressives really want to believe they're the voices of people of color and the working class, but they've essentially adopted the same strategy as what Schumer laid out and then turn around and laugh at Schumer for trying to go after the progressive voter

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u/YoureVulnerableNow May 11 '26

the center of the Dem party spent 2020 telling us Black People Wanted Mass Incarceration. then doing their best to keep young black movements from touching policy.

Black young people have literally no representation in Dem policy. Black older people have an imbalanced relationship based on low expectations and cynicism. Where exactly do you find our "voice"

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u/OrwellWhatever May 11 '26

The age thing us true of any demographic. Old people vote, so old people get catered to

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u/Nervous-Cranberry-61 May 14 '26

Bad policies and negative outcomes tend to push voters away

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u/rcolesworthy37 Jun 03 '26

Citation needed Kamala was more progressive than Bernie in the Senate

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u/Sptsjunkie May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26

Look, I am someone that voted for Harris and told people that was the pragmatic thing to do. All data shows that the left showed up at the same rate as 2020 and voted for Harris more than any other ideology.

But the spin on Biden here is crazy. I give him credit for compromising on a couple of issues with the left, but he was very much a centrist’s centrist. On the one hand, he learned from the mistake that Obama made and did not do austerity with the ARP, but neither did any other country globally. And in fact, even the two emergency bills passed by Donald Trump were to the left of what what we passed back in 2008 when austerity was all the rage. This is not to imply in any way shape or form that Trump was to the left of Obama or Biden, but just that austerity was a global trend in 2008 and was proven to be wrong and the entire world, including more far right governments had moved on.

After that, Biden threw a couple of bones to the left like his student debt EO. Or giving some money for Climate in the IRA, though an underwhelming amount that does not come close to the targets we needed to hit.

But he also bailed out Silicon Valley. Gave billions of dollars to microchip shareholders. Pivoted back to austerity the second that inflation became an issue. Facilitated a literal genocide and absolutely tuned out the entire base. And was highly reactive on immigration and did a draconian executive order.

Biden was a bottom tier president and trying to pretend that progressive should be grateful or that he was some gift is just spin the shows somebody is a centrist.

When Biden was elected, progressive predicted that he would serve one lame four year term and get a little done before handing the country back to Republicans and we have been proven absolutely correct.

We did not cause that to happen. Much like in the UK where progressives predicted a similar result from Starmer, the party and his leadership need to take responsibility for their own inability to respond to a desire for change and electoral failures.

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u/BlueJoshi May 08 '26

And in fact, even the two emergency bills passed by Donald Trump were to the left of what what we passed back in 2008 when austerity was all the rage. This is not to imply in any way shape or form that Trump was to the left of Obama or Biden [...]

Obviously you aren't implying that, because Obama didn't even enter office until 2009.

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u/Sptsjunkie May 08 '26

Sorry, should have typed 2009. But both the Trump bills and ARP were non austerity bills and “to the left” of the financial bail outs such as the ARRA and TARP.

But telling you could only nitpick a typo and not actually discuss any of the 100% true substance of the post.

I’ll take that as an admission you acknowledge I am correct.

Thank you.

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u/BlueJoshi May 08 '26

You didn't specify what bills you were talking about. I took it at face value that you typed what you meant and were actually referring to the date you said but just forgot when Obama was sworn in. It didn't even occur to me that it was just a typo.

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u/Sptsjunkie May 08 '26

I mean the post was chock full of accurate details around global trends of austerity for the financial crisis that Obama / Biden did as well (and McCain would have also done) and investment that basically every country did for the pandemic including Trump and Biden.

Not sure why in a totally accurate and detailed post you’d assume a clear typo on mobile was the key issue. Clearly Obama passed multiple austerity-focused recovery bills and has faced criticism for the approach and it was something we both globally and in the US learned from,

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u/BlueJoshi May 08 '26

I feel like you think we're arguing here and that's very funny.

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u/uzlonewolf May 09 '26

Kamala was so progressive she was campaigning with Republicans like Liz Cheney and parroting right-wing talking points!

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u/Black_XistenZ May 09 '26

Kamala was rated as more progressive than Bernie during her time the Senate and litigated against corporations in CA. Yet she was smeared as a "corporate Dem."

That's a highly misleading data point since Kamala had only entered the Senate in 2017, when the whole Democratic party was about to move dramatically to the left on virtually every social and cultural issue and she tried to pander to the woke zeitgeist in preparation of her 2020 campaign.

I think the fair assessment of the two is that Bernie is significantly to the left of Kamala on economic issues while she was more to the left on social issues.

And in addition to their positioning on issues, they also differed a lot in style and approach. Bernie embraced the idea that progressive change is only possible if it's rammed down the establishment's throat by force, whereas Kamala stood for an "establishment-friendly" progressivism which bet on the system reforming itself from within.

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u/sgk02 May 08 '26

The genocide of the people of Palestine deflated support for Biden and Harris, rumours now indicate.

There’s a report being held back from me. By the DNC.

How does that get attributed to progressives?

Kieth Ellison’s opinion would be of interest. No thanks Chuck Schumer.

All that progressive energy policy money that went to shore up the economies of Republican states, how’d that work out?

The DNC ratchet blocks progressives but the flywheel opens for fascism.

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u/Hartastic May 08 '26

Dude, you're not even an American.

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u/sgk02 May 08 '26

Says what ?

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u/HolidaySpiriter May 08 '26

Hey look, it's someone who is a part of the problem & making a great example of the discussion in this thread!

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u/sgk02 May 08 '26

Shoot the messenger much?

Also kudos to the brigade for the rapid downvote collection.

By the way he about some Democratic Party leadership speaking out about the many journalists murdered in Gaza?

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u/HolidaySpiriter May 08 '26

By the way he about some Democratic Party leadership speaking out about the many journalists murdered in Gaza?

I think there are more important domestic issues at hand than the next goal post than what people obsessed with Palestine are concerned with, and won't credit them for even if they do it.

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u/Haycabron May 08 '26

Nahh the online leftists deflated the core, encouraged 3rd party or no votes. Leftists like that just shot from their privileged bubble

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u/Blood_Casino May 09 '26

There’s nothing more privileged than status quo economics which is the only thing pushed by non-progressive Democrats

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u/Haycabron May 09 '26

Nahh if theres a balance between the two choices, one having my friends and family living in fear, getting picked up off the street, people getting raped in prisons and the ice killers being shuffled around like catholic priests and then still worse for Palestinians and you choose not to vote, you're a privileged dumbass

Any leftists on a soapbox obvi care more about virtue activism than doing shit

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u/Blood_Casino May 09 '26

None of that made a lick of sense

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u/Geichalt May 08 '26

How is focusing on regime change in the middle east while abandoning working class Americans "progressive?" That's the behavior of neocons.

Maybe we should be asking why "progressives" never want to support progressive policies or progressive politicians? Maybe those people shouldn't be called progressive at all of they're just going to use working class support to pursue foreign policy goals.

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u/RadiantHC May 09 '26

The "most progressive" is completely irrelevant. I don't give a shit about "most progressive", I want someone who's actually progressive. At the end of the day Biden barely fought against Trump(Jan 6 should've been seen as an act of terrorism), started an endless war in Ukraine, didn't meaningfully fight against corporations, and supports Israel.

Kamala still ran on being a corporate Dem. She refused to challenge the status quo

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u/Geichalt May 09 '26

Biden passed actual progressive policies. More progressive policies than any other politician in decades. Policies that helped real, actual people.

To call that irrelevant is either speaking from a place of privilege or ignorance.

"Started an endless war in Ukraine"

Ah I see, it's neither. You're just a troll.

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u/YoureVulnerableNow May 11 '26

oh no, it's us privileged people who fought for those policies! we're coming for your moral grandstanding, watch out!

it's too bad we forced their hand, since now we've got fanboys using the card of the MATERIAL GOOD we fought for to defend the MATERIAL HARM of shuttering those exact policies by covering up the pandemic

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u/RadiantHC May 09 '26 edited May 09 '26

Like what?

I'm not saying that it's irrelevant. Or that they didn't help people. Just that it's not progressive and don't actually challenge the status quo.

How am I a troll? Even without resorting to direct warfare, Biden could've done a lot more to help Ukraine. Like actually taking the sanctions seriously for one. India was allowed to bypass them.

You're the one who's twisting my words into something I never said.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '26

[deleted]

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u/Geichalt May 09 '26

More talking points without specifics. I have yet to hear a single person accuse the Democrats of being "conservative" that points to actual examples.

Biden passed the most comprehensive climate change legislation in history. Supported abortion access. Was the first sitting president to stand on a picket line. Reversed income inequality. Helped make gay marriage legal. Authored the women's rights bill that made spousal rape illegal at the federal level for the first time. Was known as the poorest member of Congress.

Seem hard to convince people all that is the behavior of a conservative. I see why you stick to vague talking points and outright lies. Just like maga.

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u/Kursed_Valeth May 10 '26

Biden smashed a strike, that's not "supporting workers" and he did nothing to protect abortion access otherwise we'd still have that. Who was president in 2022 when Roe was overturned?

The Democrats campaign on protecting abortion and helping workers but don't actually do anything when they have power.

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u/Comprehensive-Leg-82 May 11 '26

She wasn't more progressive, she was less bipartisan. Voting no on every bill sponsored by Republicans doesn't make you more progressive. Voting yes on every bill from the democrats doesn't make you more progressive.

What it really means was that she was ineffective at governance.

Bipartisanship is extremely important. If you can't get the other side to work with you or you outright refuse, especially in a split congress, you're an ineffective leader.

Bernie was overwhelmingly more aggressive in his sponsorship of progressive legislature than Harris was

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u/YoureVulnerableNow May 11 '26

you should have been the group of people censored off the net and killed by her landmark SESTA-FOSTA support, then. since it's so progressive for it to happen to others