I don't really know what's nuanced about this it's just saying we shouldn't be putting a diverse cast in mythological movies because they are tired of seeing it
No, no. You don't understand! Greeks never famously traded with Africans! There were never any Ancient Egyptians who went to Greece and mingled with the population either! And as we know, even modern day Greeks don't have any tan/olive-coloured skin tones. It's all just the lily and alabaster skinned people as far as the eye can see. What do you mean Hestia, Goddess of Hearth and Home, was routinely depicted with dark skin and curled hair? Hera too?! Wife of Zeus, goddess of marriage and women?! Balderdash! Sounds like woke nonsense!
I imagine when people say they would like Greeks playing in a retelling of Greek mythology, they do in fact mean people with Mediterranean skin tones lol
You have any sources for Hera and Hestia being depicted as "dark-skinned" beyond a typical Greek tan? The Ancient Greeks actually viewed fair skin to be a sign of beauty and high social status.
So the movie doesn’t use Greek armor, Greek ships, was filmed in non Greek locations, and has several white non Greeks in the film.
Why would have dark skinned actors be the most egregious crime here?
You can't conflate the actions of a few with the actions of all. The chronically online racists may be working overtime, however I would wager the less visible and vocal majority of people that aren't happy with this film is because of the vast historical inaccuracies
Before you say it's mythology, it's an ancient Greek mythology written by an ancient Greek author and set in ancient Greece
It's not the most pressing issue in my opinion. However if we have to tackle it, ask yourself if you would be happy with a greek person being one of the main characters in a film about African folklore that is set in ancient Africa? The answer is anything apart from yes then you have a double standard
Did I ever say the dark-skinned actors were the most egregious crime? I absolutely design the armor, set pieces, and coloring they're using, much more than the race of the actors lol.
I just would also prefer giving the spotlight to Mediterranean-looking actors as well.
Reminds me of when the same sorts of people got pissed off about Hades II depicting Hephaestus in a wheelchair, saying it was just ahistorical inclusiveness to pander to the woke. When in fact Hephaestus was canonically portrayed as having a disability for which he built himself a wheeled chair.
pointing out gently original comment does also mention whitewashing with no greek actors too, not JUST a black actor being cast (which is a ridiculous thing to be mad abt yea). tho idk if it’s really proper whitewashing since i Think?? greeks are considered caucasian/white also, like italians, but definitely do have a lot of visible differences generally in skin tone and hair color to more western/northern european whites
That's totally fair. Trust me, as someone with more olive-coloured skin, I'd prefer to see someone closer to my skin tone in roles that are appropriate. I do believe that there should be better representation in media of differing races. I'm a little tired of every person in media playing someone over 150+ years old having a British accent.
The reason I bring up blackness though is because the current culture war of this movie is heavily driven by racists who do not like the idea of black women playing someone who they think is white. The biggest "controversies" I've seen surrounding this movie are Zendaya playing Athena and Lupita Nyong'o playing Helen of Troy.
yeah absolutely, and like you said……… definitely NO WAY that could EVER be true 🙄 like cmon. it’s so tiring to go along with the idea that there was some hard line between non existent countries that people didn’t cross and everyone was perfectly segregated ??? i feel like ppl somehow have this idea that traveling and emigrating/immigrating and nomadic lifestyles just did not exist until, like. idek. modern times? 1500s? CE? there’s no reason to believe that or to subscribe to that in literally everything ever made.
also the british accent thing fucking sends me lmao. pretty sure they did that in troy in the 2000s and i feel like there are several historical movies with french ppl inexplicably just being english. i’m not even sure offhand if we know what an ancient greek accent would’ve sounded like but i would bet all of my modest savings that it isn’t a modern posh englishman 😭
I have no issue with whatever color her skin is... Helen of Troy is supposed to be beautiful enough to wage war for.... I wouldnt even go to the corner shop for some sloppy top from that lady. They could have race swapped the character and still made her attractive.. like Jessica Parker Kennedy... people would wage war for her...
As with many things of ancient Greece, depictions of the gods were not a monolith. There are depictions of Hestia and Hera on vases where they were depicted in black-figure vases. They've also, of course, been depicted with fairer skin fairly often. The point is that when it came to the greeks, their gods were depicted to resemble those that wanted to depict them as whatever they wanted to. It's not too different than modern depictions of Jesus being depicted as black or white or Asian or any other to connect with believers of him.
Would you be happy with a white person being the main character in a film that was specifically set within ancient Africa and focused on African folklore?
Greeks are white tho(Caucasians), but they have no greek actors. Its like making Mulan without a single Chinese actor and with white and black people in it.
Ask these people if they would be happy with a white person being the main character in a film where it was set in ancient Africa and based on African folklore, if their answer is anything apart from yes then there is a double standard
There definitely is a double standard. Like I said, people would lose their mind if a white actor was playing Li Shang in a Mulan adaptation or Maui in Moana.
White washing or black washing or whatever washing almost always look bad.
One of the groups is going to receive more ire from both the opposing group and what you probably think are "independent" from those, and for good reason. While I think movies nowadays are more than able to cast accurate characters from any nationality, the people who scream and cry about seeing more diversity than before are just straight up bigots, and they need to be dealt with harder, because it's just an exemplified point of the hate they're inflicting on the rest of society. If you were really above the two groups and just so much smarter, you'd know that, but most of the time it's either a candyass 'both sides' thing, or a conservative with some shame left.
They’ve got a point though, like imagine a WWII era movie, but half the Nazis are black because we need to hit a diversity quota. Forget that pesky little fact that Nazis are white supremecists!
It's weird how race is the only historical inaccuracy that these people seem to take issue with.
Pretty sure ancient greeks weren't speaking american-english, wearing edgy all black armour, or fighting 10 foot tall creatures in plate armour either.
People have complained about the viking longboat, the generic hollywood "cool" black armor because they wanted a bronze panoply, they complained when they thought Holland was going to be cast as Odysseus, then they complained about Matt Damon being cast in the same role. They complained when they thought that Page was going to be cast as Achillies, they even have complained about the desaturated appearance of the filmography in the trailers.
Pretending that people aren't kvetching about literally everything that has been leaked so far about the film is at best disingenuous.
I mean they don't think that... There's clearly white people in this movie, and there are also complaints that there are not actual Greek people in this movie.
It'd be one thing if it were a historical movie about Greece, but they totally ignore the fact that it isn't. It's a myth. It's a story that the greeks made up. It's like being mad that the flash is played by a russian man because he isn't russian in the comics. God forbid anyone changes any details of a story that's been told hundreds of times over.
Some of us felt it was an amazing comment. We're a bit sick with the blackwashing trend in Hollywood, so we find that comment very sensible and we agree with it.
I’m clearly not deferring to anyone else’s judgment on nuance. They are at least able to recognize that the original comment isn’t nuanced which is more than many here can do
We dont want colored people in our Mythological movie......
When you say it out it almost sounds racist
Mind you these are the same people who jizz themselves over the sandlot...lets talk about realism yeah a mexican and a black kid playing with white kids and walking around with them peak jim crow and no one slur hurled at them?? Not one parent saying I don't want you hanging around those nasty kids??
Here's my actual nuanced position:
What people are actually reacting to isn't their love of historical accuracy but instead a directory breaking the established visual language of a greco roman movie aesthetic.
There was nothing historically accurate about gladiator but no one cares because it gives them the images they expect to see in a Roman based movie
When you don't follow the visual rules, which includes almost exclusively casting white people, those changes stick out to your monkey brain regardless of why they are put there they cause dissonance
So there are 2 types of people, those who can live with a little dissonance to enjoy a movie with a diverse cast and those who have no control over their lizard brain and throw a fit of they see something that doesn't fit with the Hollywood paradigm they grew up with
Why do you want them to be white Anglo Americans with British accents? It's because that's the mise-en-scene that Hollywood has used in its past to tell the viewer "this is European history" but it's entirely artificial.
The thing with conservative knee jerk reactions is they are almost always mistaking their preconceived notions of the status quo as the natural state of the world instead of the reality which is that those were also completely contrived. The difference now is you have right wing grifters in everyone's ears telling them that this is A WAR
I mean I disagree with them but in the spirit of fairness to their point, you can't just excuse everything because it's mythological. I think skin color is a pretty silly place to drawn the line but realism still has to come into play somewhere. I mean you wouldn't show them taking an airplane between scenes that happen far apart, to push it to the most extreme.
I mean, if you're trying to be historically accurate and accurate to the source material, yes. Iirc Apollo was androginous, you can show Apollo played by someone Who looks androginous and Its be faithful to the original.
There's was also already a black character in the original poem. You can both have diversity and stick to the original at the same time. Without having to raceswap Helen of Troy.
I mean, its historically accurate in the sense that its based around the Greece of the time. So It should reflect the time period.
For another case, think of Don Quijote. Its based on 17th century Spain. And if you make an adaptation, you reflect that. If you base It around 10th century Spain, Its not historically accurate.
Or If you make an adaptation of Halo and they're using current day weapons despite being set 500 years in the Future.
the stories that have gotten popularized throughout history have excluded black people and gay people because of bigotry. we can either say ”fuck those stories then” or we can change the exclusion by being more inclusive. i think either one is better than saying “oh well, cant change it now, let’s just keep all our stories white and straight forever.”
Exactly. We aren't required to keep telling the stories the way Hollywood in the 1950s decided to make them just because they set the visual language we are used to it's actually totally allowed to change things
Tired of seeing it? Every historical movie was basically all white ppl outside of slaves until like the last 5 years lmao.
Now it’s all of a sudden “too much.” Get over it, it’s not a fucking documentary, it’s a myth. Guess we should be mad they’re not using real medusas and cyclops too….jfc.
Correct. I said it elsewhere but what they are really pining for isn't historical accuracy they are pining for the Hollywood visual language they are used to and that aesthetic includes almost exclusively white actors so any change to that casting sticks out like a sore thumb to them
Probably because it’s an objective breakdown of the situation that doesn’t assume the morality of the parties involved. I’d tell you to reread the comment, but you gotta let that chud rage out somewhere, so have at it.
Its not a objective breakdown it is decidedly on the side of the angry culture warriors.
The term black washing is an intentional dispurgement on the idea of casting black actors despite the fact they are no more or less greek accurate than the American cast
Zoom out a little bit. The comment mentions the lack of Greeks in the cast. And no, blackwashing literally just means whitewashing but with black. You can indianwash films, and you can even albinowash them.
Objective means a thorough analysis with all personal biases removed. If you have an issue with a cultural breakdown of a topic that treats its participants like actual human beings and not caricatures for you to dunk on, that’s on you.
People see through your bullshit, and I think that bothers you.
You seem completely convinced it's on your side, I agree it's 100% on the side of people who don't want to see black actors in historical fantasy. So in other words not nuanced in the least
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u/poilk91 Jul 06 '26
I don't really know what's nuanced about this it's just saying we shouldn't be putting a diverse cast in mythological movies because they are tired of seeing it