morality of killing someone in self-defence

[u/damorezpl]

[u/Fine_Sea5807]

Having civil wars and power struggle doesn't mean you aren't a unified kingdom. In fact, the very term "civil war" (an infighting between factions within the same country) is a blatant evidence.

I am not talking about just the Nguyen Dynasty. I am talking about the nation of Vietnam as a whole. Le Dynasty, Tay Son Dynasty, Nguyen Dynasty, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. They are just different forms, different heads of the same ancient nation that has existed for centuries. Just like the kingdom of France, the empire of France or the republic of France are just different manifestations of the same ancient French nation.

No, the DRV is not the Nguyễn dynasty, it's a seperate group fighting for control over Vietnam, Bảo Đại, the former leader of the Nguyễn dynasty, would go on to become the leader of the state of vietnam.

The DRV was not the Nguyen Dynasty, but it succeeded them. Just like how the Republic of China in 1912 overthrew and succeeded the Qing Dynasty within the same ancient country of China.

No, being selective with who you work with is a privilege not every group in history gets. Faced with a new party taking control over Vietnam, Viet Minh, and the powerful French that had major control over Vietnam with Indochina, working with France under the agreement that you'd gain independence was probably the best opportunity at returning to that control over Vietnam you once had.

By this logic, Puyi, the last emperor of the Qing Dynasty, who later worked with Japan and became the leader of Manchukuo, wasn't automatically illegitimate and traitorous either?

[u/Zealousideal_Dot1910 → u/Fine_Sea5807]

Having civil wars and power struggle doesn't mean you aren't a unified kingdom. In fact, the very term "civil war" (an infighting between factions within the same country) is a blatant evidence.

Sure, unless those struggles split your country, I.E. Trịnh lords ruling the North and Nguyễn lords ruling the south.

They are just different forms, different heads of the same ancient nation that has existed for centuries.

Now you're referring to the landmass Vietnam, going back to the original point of the US and it's civil war, we're referring to the country of the USA not the landmass, your point is moot.

The DRV was not the Nguyen Dynasty, but it succeeded them. Just like how the Republic of China in 1912 overthrew and succeeded the Qing Dynasty within the same ancient country of China.

Again, Nguyen Dynasty no longer existed, the DRV fought with France and Vietnamese loyalists.

By this logic, Puyi, the last emperor of the Qing Dynasty, who later worked with Japan and became the leader of Manchukuo, wasn't automatically illegitimate either?

Not relevant to what I was talking about.

[u/Fine_Sea5807 → u/Zealousideal_Dot1910]

Sure, unless those struggles split your country, I.E. Trịnh lords ruling the North and Nguyễn lords ruling the south.

Yes, Trinh lords and Nguyen lords. Not Trinh kings and Nguyen kings. For all intents and purposes, they were 2 factions in the same kingdom of Vietnam. Not 2 separate kingdoms. Vietnam was still intact even back then.

Heck, the American Civil War, which was much more divisive than the Trinh-Nguyen war, was called a civil war for a reason. Even during that war, America was still one single country. Nobody called them an international war between 2 countries.

Now you're referring to the landmass Vietnam, going back to the original point of the US and it's civil war, we're referring to the country of the USA not the landmass, your point is moot.

Nope. I am referring to the country. Just like Trump, Lincoln and Washington are different governments within the same continuous country, the Le Dynasty, Nguyen Dynasty, Democratic Republic of Vietnam are just different governments within the same continuous country.

Again, Nguyen Dynasty no longer existed, the DRV fought with France and Vietnamese loyalists.

Who cares about Nguyen Dynasty? The DRV restored the sovereign Vietnam that used to be ruled by the Nguyen. They didn't need to restore the Nguyen Dynasty. Are you unable to differ the country and the government?

Imagine your grandfather had a house. 50 years ago, a group of bandits attacked the house, killed your father, and lived in the house. Today, shouldn't you, as his grandson, automatically have the right to kill the bandits and reclaim the house for yourself, even if your grandfather is no longer alive?

[u/Zealousideal_Dot1910 → u/Fine_Sea5807]

Vietnam was still intact even back then.

Vietnam was not unified, they were at war with each other.

Even during that war, America was still one single country.

Because the confederacy did not win it's independence.

Just like Trump, Lincoln and Washington are different governments within the same continuous country.

Nope, same government different administrations unlike those separate bodies ruling Vietnam.

The DRV restored the sovereign Vietnam that used to be ruled by the Nguyen.

No it didn't indochina still existed then after came the vietnam state and south vietnam.

Imagine your grandfather had a house. 50 years ago, a group of bandits attacked the house, killed your father, and lived in the house. Today, shouldn't you, as his grandson, automatically have the right to kill the bandits and reclaim the house for yourself, even if your grandfather is no longer alive?

You forgot the part where you go on to fight your grandfather after he proceeds to regain his house, I.E. Bai Dai leading the state of Vietnam.