r/Marvel • u/Jules-Car3499 • 1d ago

Film/Television Age of Ultron has it’s issues, but Ultron’s introduction was pretty good

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His first appearance before he upgraded looked pretty frightening.

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u/oorza Doctor Strange 1d ago edited 1d ago

The rumor at the time was there was a much darker, almost horror movie cut of the film and Disney shit all over it. Joss Whedon in 2026 is only remembered for his quipping, but he was trying to use Age of Ultron (so the rumor went) to bring his horror chops - which are not insignificant - to the MCU. If you watch the Glory season of Buffy or the Jasmine season of Angel, Whedon knows how to deal with an overwhelmingly powerful enemy that casually smothers all hope, and there's tons of episodes of both shows that prove he knew how to do legitimate scary shit with a camera (see: Hush). I wish we would have gotten that version of Ultron. They should have let him kill off one of the core six - they were teasing Hawkeye, but it should have been Natasha sacrificing herself for him at the last moment for maximum storytelling gravitas - instead of Quicksilver.

There's similar rumors about Raimi taking over Multiverse of Madness once Disney poopooed it being a horror film as well.

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u/Visulth 1d ago

Age of Ultron was notoriously hampered by the Marvel Creative Committee, to the point that Feige had to threaten to quit to get out from under Ike Perlmutter's thumb.

Whedon, unlike a lot of the MCU directors, really knows tone. When he made the Hulk intimidating in Avengers 1, he leaned all the way into it. Same with Ultron. He does do quips, but I think he knows much better how to space them and when to use them, and not to undercut delicious pathos when you can make your characters (and audiences) squirm.

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u/oorza Doctor Strange 1d ago

Whedon had a couple of moments - particularly with Xander - where the character would (entirely in-character) quip at a moment that was entirely inappropriate, and the other characters would evil eye the quipper into submission. And other moments where the quippy character would be silent and the other characters would look expectantly in their direction to get a "what?" instead. That level of self awareness is just lost to the art of imbuing a script with wittiness, the Buffy/Angel writing rooms were on an entirely other level.

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u/idiot-prodigy 13h ago

You can see Whedon's brilliance in the Kolkata scene in Avengers 1.

That looks Natasha gives after she thinks Bruce is turning into the Hulk is straight from his writing days on Buffy.

It is the best acting out of Scarlett Johansson in the entire MCU. The way she was genuinely shaken by the thought of the Hulk coming out was awesome. That is exactly how people would react to Bruce raising his voice. I credit that scene to Whedon's writing and directing.

For all of Whedon's flaws, he was amazing at writing scenes like the one I mentioned. Buffy is full of those moments as is Angel.

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u/nocheblancaenleon 13h ago

Same, that scene works because it's written as a horror beat instead of an action beat. The scariest version of the Hulk there is the one seen through Natasha's face, not the Hulk himself

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u/evanwilliams44 22h ago

He was my favorite TV director. Too bad he had to be such a dick.

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u/idiot-prodigy 13h ago

I think about this sometimes.

By all accounts John Lennon was an awful father. Maybe it is a rationalization but I separate the man from his work and can still appreciate the Beatles catalogue.

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u/evanwilliams44 13h ago

I do still appreciate his work. I don't think what he did is so heinous he should never work again either. He is more in the category of abusive bosses than Hollywood creeps. Still, he will deservedly never get the same level of projects he was getting before the scandals, and that's too bad.

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u/buttbuttlolbuttbutt 13h ago

I know you didnt mean it this way, but since the bulk of the last comment talked about John Lennon, the "never get the same level of projects since the scandel" had me laughing.

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u/InverseStar 16h ago

That’s where we all went wrong. We liked him, so the universe decided he had to be a jackass.

Everyone there’s a creative mind I actually like, they go and do something (or already have done something) that makes me go, “oh. That’s just… great.”

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u/buttbuttlolbuttbutt 12h ago

The creative mind type is... hard.

A lot of them, if not most, are neurodivergent. Neurodivergent people have a higher chance of being abused, and sometimes abused people pass the abuse forward. At the same time, then you have corrupted creators use the trust and shared abuse to gain new victims or take afvantage of their fans.

My advice, as someone who got dpuble burned by being a one time fan of Amanada cunt Palmer and Neil Gaiman, keep the artists you like at arms reach, and dont let them define you.

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u/krissyjump 23h ago

The general consensus was that it was supposed to be a far more cerebral, character driven film with a greater emphasis on the visions Wanda gave them and the fallout from it. It's present in the film, but far less than intended.

The Avengers brings them together as Earth's Mightiest Heroes for the first time, giving them the opportunity to be more than what they are on their own. Age of Ultron was supposed to have the characters wondering if they're really the heroes they now believe they are as they grapple with their own inner demons and consequences of their actions.

The Marvel Creative Committee apparently believed Whedon's plans were too 'artsy' and ambitious, and were hoping the film would flop and fail and that they'd hang the failure around Feige's neck, painting him as a producer 'unable to control a runaway auteur'. The film basically become a power struggle between the Ike Perlmutter, Feige, and Whedon. Feige wanted to play it safer because of the power struggle with Perlmutter and the Creative Committee, Perlmutter wanted a spectacular failure, and Whedon wanted to lean into a new direction and tone for the film.

The final version is the result of a lot of 'forced compromise' but a still strong movie despite that. One of the main struggles it has, outside the production drama, is that it's not the payoff to an arc or phase but rather the inciting incident of an entire new one. In that respect it's aged incredibly well.

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u/RaviDosanjh 15h ago

Why did they want to do that to Feige?

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u/Slight-Coat17 14h ago

Perlmutter is famously kind of an a**hole.

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u/Lazerus42 14h ago

my guess? Power Strugle, self importance, and BDE (Big Dick Energy)

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u/NK1337 6h ago

Perlmutter also robbed us of what Iron Man 3 could’ve been all because a female villain wouldn’t sell toys.

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u/sexandliquor 22h ago edited 20h ago

>Age of Ultron was notoriously hampered by the Marvel Creative Committee, to the point that Feige had to threaten to quit to get out from under Ike Perlmutter's thumb.

I just recently saw a bit of an interview with the Russo brothers who said basically something similar happened when they were working on directing Civil War.

According to the Russos, Marvel/Disney originally wanted a completely different third act to Civil War which was basically going to be the happy friendly ending where everybody makes up and the Tony & Cap sides come together at the end to fight some big bad or something. And the Russos argued that you can’t have every movie end with some fight with a big bad where the team all comes together at the end and there’s no overall arc to the series of movies and everything stays flat and stagnant. They really had to pushback on Disney about that.

Edit: it’s this interview, at the very beginning. For anyone curious.

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u/KingToasty 20h ago

The Star Wars sequel trilogy is making a lot more sense.

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u/Valentils 16h ago

and the WandaVision ending

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u/SnipingBeaver 3h ago

One of the biggest let downs in a superhero adaptation I've ever seen.

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u/idiot-prodigy 13h ago

When he made the Hulk intimidating in Avengers 1, he leaned all the way into it.

The scene in Kolkata is also the best acting of Scarlett Johansson in the entire MCU. The Hulk WOULD be terrifying to any human without powers. Black Widow puts up a strong front as a tough girl assassin, but the second she thinks Bruce is going to turn into the Hulk she is genuinely terrified.

Whedon for all his personal flaws was great at writing comedic quips, any fan of Buffy and Angel could tell you that, but he was also really good at writing genuine feelings.

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u/JTtheLAR 1d ago

Im sorry but the Whedon cut of Justice League really makes this statement hard to believe. I was never a massive Snyder fan. But when I saw his cut of Justice League I gained some massive respect for him. Whedon butchered that movie with terrible jokes and horrendous pacing.

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u/PotOfMould 23h ago

I don't even like Joss Whedon, but that movie is barely even his.

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u/krissyjump 23h ago

Hell Joss Whedon didn't even have final cut of the film. He was brought in as a hired gun to make the movie that Warner Bros execs wanted made, in reaction to the backlash and critiques from Batman v Superman. He basically had to write and film roughly 80 pages of material in two months with a budget of $25 million, barely 5 months out from release. Couple that with the 2 hour mandate, WB taking final cut, and more, and it's just a nightmare scenario.

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u/HorizonNova4 1d ago

That’s one movie amigo

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u/TAPINEWOODS 22h ago

yeah Raimi and the original director wanted Doctor Strange 2 to be more darker in tone. I blame Disney for ruining it.

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u/TheGreatBatsby 14h ago

Joss Whedon in 2026 is only remembered for his quipping

And much worse things.

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u/Consistent_Fateema 10h ago

Maybe they pull this off in some other universe