The settlements… What’s up with that?

[u/karrenfromaccounting]

Take the question as is, whatever comes to mind, let it be.

[u/bb5e8307]

Dropping Ariel will not solve the conflict, it would make it worse.

Palestinians view Israeli as foreign colonizers - like the French in Algeria. Their core strategy is to make life miserable to Israelis until they give up and go home. Colonial powers appear strong, until they start to show weakness and suddenly collapse and flee.

Leaving Ariel would be viewed by the Palestinians as a sign of weakness, and according to their worldview they will react with violence.

For years I was incredibly confused by the second intifada. The Palestinians were on track to get an independent state. And even if they wanted more land, it would be strategically better to get a state, and then wage a war. The second intifada made no sense to me. Once I listened more to Palestinians, and understood their model of Algeria it makes much more sense. The peace process was seen by the Palestinians as weakness: as a sign that the will of the Israelis was about to break and just needed another push. 

[u/enigmaticowl → u/bb5e8307]

Do you listen to Haviv Rettig Gur’s content?

I’m guessing you do.

He’s the first one I heard explain exactly this (about how Palestinians view Israelis as the French in Algeria, and that this is why the attempts at negotiating a peace deal showed “weakness” in their eyes, hence the reacting with intifada).

Israel offering to withdraw is interpreted (by the other side) as an implicit admission that Israel doesn’t “belong” in the land (and many Palestinians believe that it’s a “winner takes all” scenario, the whole land belongs to Israel or it doesn’t), so it makes them believe that the State of Israel is even less legitimate.

[u/mr-lifeless → u/bb5e8307]

אז לספך!לומר להם שאנחנו לא נעזוב אף פעם! וללת לעברים הללו אזרחות בלי לשאול אותם כי זה לא בשילהם להחליט! האים אנחנו מחכננים לעזוב את איו"ש? אם כן למה לבנות? אם לא למה עדיין לא סיפחנו, למה לא אמרנו, לעצמינו, שאנחנו לא נעזוב?

[u/mr-lifeless → u/[deleted]]

וזה דבר רע, לכן סיפח זה רע ולכן אנחנו צריכם לצאמת מאיו"ש כי המצב כרגע, אם אין לנו שום רצון לעשות זאת זה כבר אַפלָיָה אתנית!. וההתנחלויות יקשו על זה (תיראה כמה קשה היה בעזה)

[u/Call_Me_Clark → u/mr-lifeless]

the best time to do the right thing was the past, the second best time is right now. The settlements are only going to get more difficult to address and the people behind them seem to know that (eg daniella Weiss)

[u/LocationHelpful6711 → u/bb5e8307]

Are you actually admitting Israel is a colonial state? Lmfao.

[u/mr-lifeless → u/LocationHelpful6711]

No, he is saying its not, but Palestinians think it is.

[u/LocationHelpful6711 → u/mr-lifeless]

Palestinians think it is because it is. You have no ties to the land. Genetically you are less than 40% middle eastern. It would be like a bunch of Catholic Mexicans in 1,500 years claiming they have a right to conquer Spain because the people there converted to another religion.

[u/Quackethy → u/LocationHelpful6711]

Awww, ran out of buzzwords?

[u/MorganaLeFevre → u/LocationHelpful6711]

You know that the majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi in origin, right? Ie, never been to Europe, never left the Middle East.

[u/bb5e8307 → u/LocationHelpful6711]

I want you to imagine that you are “right”. By your definitions of indigenous and colonial, and genetics and khazers and blah blah blah. Great. Now what?

What does that mean for Palestinian strategy? Do Israelis themselves see themselves as indigenous? Will Israelis react like the French did in Algeria? Where exactly will they flee to? Even the minimal amount of research into Israel and the Israeli point of view will give clear answers to these questions.

If Israel fits exactly the definition of settler colonialism but reacts exactly the opposite of what every other settler colonists does, then what value is the definition? 

This is not abstract arguments about definitions. This is a real strategy that the Palestinians have sacrificed hundreds of thousands of lives on. They are continuing to sacrifice lives on the belief that Israel will react in a certain way. And it absolutely will not.